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THE Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) Thread (merg

Discuss specific research and forecasts.

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Re: Is CERA Coming Round to the Idea of Peak?

Unread postby coyote » Wed 25 Jun 2008, 21:56:30

TonyPrep wrote:is it possible to acknowledge a peak in gasoline usage without acknowledging a peak in oil production?

He's drawing a pretty clear distinction between the two:

Daniel Yergin wrote:"As the committee knows, there is much talk about 'peak oil' supply these days," said Yergin. "However, we think something else is at hand - 'peak demand' - at least in terms of U.S. gasoline consumption," Yergin said. "In our view, 2007 may well have been the top, the peak, in terms of U.S. gasoline demand."

CNN Money

CERA. I don't take seriously much these guys have to say. They're the anti-ASPO - endlessly optimistic. This is just the most optimistic spin they could put on this situation.
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Re: Is CERA Coming Round to the Idea of Peak?

Unread postby JohnDenver » Wed 25 Jun 2008, 23:39:13

TonyPrep wrote:is it possible to acknowledge a peak in gasoline usage without acknowledging a peak in oil production?


Yes. I'm not sure why that is difficult to understand...

Here's another example. EIA statistics show that oil consumption in Japan peaked in 1996 -- 12 years ago -- and has been declining ever since. "Peak oil" in Japan was a demand driven phenomenon.
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Re: Is CERA Coming Round to the Idea of Peak?

Unread postby Micki » Thu 26 Jun 2008, 01:10:24

However, we think something else is at hand - 'peak demand' - at least in terms of U.S. gasoline consumption


Can that be read an anything else than US economy and/or Dollar is going down the drain but possibly other nations wont?
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Re: Is CERA Coming Round to the Idea of Peak?

Unread postby TonyPrep » Thu 26 Jun 2008, 04:01:41

JohnDenver wrote:
TonyPrep wrote:is it possible to acknowledge a peak in gasoline usage without acknowledging a peak in oil production?


Yes. I'm not sure why that is difficult to understand...

Here's another example. EIA statistics show that oil consumption in Japan peaked in 1996 -- 12 years ago -- and has been declining ever since. "Peak oil" in Japan was a demand driven phenomenon.
Japan's population has been static or declining for a long time. Not so, the USA's. That's partly why it's so difficult to understand. Another is the population density and the apparent aspirations of American citizens. To expect gasoline use in the US never to rise again, ever, especially with a rising population seems to be an unlikely belief, unless you think that oil production will, at least, lag demand from now on.
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Re: Is CERA Coming Round to the Idea of Peak?

Unread postby yull » Thu 26 Jun 2008, 05:40:23

UK oil and energy use has been pretty flat or even slightly down over the past 40 years too. Is this because we don't need oil anymore? No! It is because we have exported our industry and manufacturing to the far East and instead run our economy on people typing in spreadsheets, football clubs and people suing each other. Our oil demand hasn't peaked, it's just been exported somewhere else so it doesn't show up on our figures. I imagine it's the same for Japan.
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby allenwrench » Mon 30 Jun 2008, 09:15:27

Peak oil...it is just a theory. That is what my wife's lady friend stockbroker told her.

Dismissing peak oil as 'just a theory' is an easy and quick way to rebut PO.

If the question is when we will peak - yes we can only theorize.

If the question is if we will peak - then it is not a theory and only a question of time.

No one knows the exact peak date for world oil production, but we do know that time will come in the not so distant future. But finding the peak is not hard problem once we can look back on it by a few years...but we need some time to do it...again, only time will settle this debate.

And the possibility may be that we find another big discovery and the peak dates look more like a double top stock market chart than the drop over a cliff.

Image

But all this does not really matter. The bottom line is we are running out of crude no matter how the hard the spin doctors try to masturbate the facts.

The fact that 'we have to estimate' reserves or useful life of anything says that the item in question does not have an infinite supply or life span.

I never argue with persons claiming that we have peaked already or others that claim the peak is 20 years away. To me they are both on the same page, just looking at different paragraphs.

But the person that thinks that the world can go on forever using 31,000,000,000 barrels a year of crude and never have to pay the bill with the eventual depletion of fossil fuels is just plain wrong.

"If the public does think briefly about future oil supplies, the question usually asked is, "How long will oil last?" This is the wrong question. Oil will be extracted in some insignificant quantity perhaps 200 years from now. The critical question is: When does the peak of world oil production occur?" ~ Richard C. Duncan
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Mon 30 Jun 2008, 12:08:28

Allen et al,

Here's a thought which popped to mind while reading Saudi's latest press release. It goes to Allen consideration of the actually timing of PO:


I believe the most recent press releases from Saudi Arabia can be taken as an admission the kingdom now believes they have reached Peak Oil.

Consider the KSA’s base positions:

1)The market is adequately supplied.
2) Much of the price run up is due to speculation.
3)The KSA has sufficient excess capacity to deliver significantly more oil to the market should there be a demand for it.

Now consider the new press releases from the KSA:

1)Khurais Field will come online next June at 1.2 million bopd.
2)The plan is to increase their current 11 million bopd capacity to 12.5 million bopd.
3)The cost to build this expanded deliverability is $10 billion.


If the KSA believes the market will require an additional 1.2 mm bopd next June they currently have, by their own admission, the capacity to meet the demand: 11 mm bopd – 9.6 mm bopd (current production rate) = 1.4 m bopd. Thus why spend $10 billion to add unneeded capacity. Granted in time the extra capacity will be required but according to their statements current deliverability is more than adequate to meet any demand increase in the immediate future.

You’re really left with only two conclusions (but please off any others that pop to mind):

1)The KSA didn’t really have a better use for the $10 billion right now and doesn’t mind the new production facilities sitting there idle. (and that’s a really bad idea: such equipment doesn't “age” very well if it’s not being utilized)
2)The KSA knows their true production capabilities and decline rates better than anyone else and projects a real demand for the additional NET capacity in a year.

Even if there’s a significant global recession (as there was in the early 80’s) and the price of oil drops 75% (like it did in 1986) to $40/bbl then the new production would still earn the KSA about $13 billion net (I’m guessing lifting costs of around $10/bbl).

Hmmm….recover the new costs with less than a year’s production even if the global economy slumps and consumption drops (like it did in the early 80’s). And then the KSA can open the wells up and grab a bigger chunk of market share just like they did when they drove oil down to $10/bbl in 1986.

Double Hmmm…..if a global recession puts PO off a few more years than the KSA is in a great position to capture more of the market and still make a handsome return. And if the world figures how out to prosper (or at least survive) with high oil prices then the KSA is in a great position to capture more of the market and make an more handsome return.

Damn...those Swiss economist are smart.
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby MrBill » Tue 01 Jul 2008, 02:03:18

Good points. Either way they have a strangle hold on conventional oil production going forward as non-OPEC oil production is hardly growing at all, while we all know some older fields are already in steep decline.

Therefore, Saudi's real risk is energy conservation and a switch to alternatives that destroys 'potential' demand, and not the situation they faced a decade earlier when new non-OPEC supply came on-line.

And as the lowest cost producer, the price setter so to speak, they also control the economics of non-conventional oil production if future demand turns up weaker than expected. If not, then they share the total energy pie with non-conventional oil in a market with tight supply and growing demand.

Image

That chart only goes up to 2006, and we all know what has happened to crude oil prices since then.

Image

It is all about the money. A wealth transfer of unparalleled proportions. Or at least comparable with Spain's discovery of gold in the New World.

Image
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 01 Jul 2008, 06:21:21

Spain's discovery of gold in the New World....a great analogy Mr. Bill. Works on quit a few levels when you ponder it.
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby nickynicky » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 10:37:25

Let us say you succeed tomorrow in convincing the whole world of peak oil imminence. How will this help anything?

(I mean, this web site becomes worth 20 billion dollars, but other than that?)
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 12:13:22

It's easy Nicky: smart people make better decisions than stupid people. And since many of the worst aspects of life are caused by bad decisions the benefit is obvious.
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby MrBill » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 02:24:27

ROCKMAN wrote:It's easy Nicky: smart people make better decisions than stupid people. And since many of the worst aspects of life are caused by bad decisions the benefit is obvious.


Bravo! Hit the nail right on the head! ; - ))
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keyword:

Unread postby Jeorge » Tue 18 Nov 2008, 06:05:23

But wind-energy advocates say the lack of transmission lines has kept a lot of that power from being put to use and has hindered the building of more turbines.wind-energy
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Re: keyword:

Unread postby MrBill » Tue 18 Nov 2008, 07:52:32

Jeorge wrote:But wind-energy advocates say the lack of transmission lines has kept a lot of that power from being put to use and has hindered the building of more turbines.wind-energy


Welcome Jeorge! There are many including myself that feel that in the long-run the key to alternatives will be moving manufacturing and industry 'to' alternative sources of renewable power and not 'bringing' that energy to where people choose to live now (for whatever reason). That may be bad for the value of stranded assets already in place, but may be a post peak oil reality due to both transmission losses and infrastructure security in a world of scarcity.
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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Tue 18 Nov 2008, 13:18:27

That suggests a whole new wave of manufacturing in

...

Nebraska!!


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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby mgibbons19 » Tue 18 Nov 2008, 13:25:02

That suggests a whole new wave of manufacturing in

...

Nebraska!!


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Re: Why the “Peak Oil” Theory Falls Down (CERA Report)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 18 Nov 2008, 18:42:05

mgibbons19 wrote:That suggests a whole new wave of manufacturing in

...

Nebraska!!


I rather doubt that due to the developing water shortage which will only get worse as the Ogallala aquifer becomes further depleated.

More likely places IMO will include traditional and micro-hydro, tidal, wave, geothermal and offshore wind. Onshore wind in places with enough rainfall for dryland farming will also be a winner.

Of course if people are sensible enough to adopt conversion level fission reactors with full reprocessing the climate won't be so important where you live, the desert places will have HVAC just like they do now. Florida and California and AZ became havens for the retired age groups because of air conditioning, in the past people from 'up north' had no desire to live through a pheonix summer f they could avoid it by staying in the north. Thats the original source of all the 'snow birds' who migrate south in the winter and north in the summer, if it were not for cheap fossil fuels such a lifestyle would have never developed.
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Re: THE Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) Thread (merg

Unread postby OilFinder2 » Tue 17 Nov 2009, 21:14:01

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Re: THE Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) Thread (merg

Unread postby davep » Tue 17 Nov 2009, 22:22:26

From the article:
Sixty percent of the more than 1,000 fields examined in detail for the study were found to have production levels that were either steady or climbing. When taking into account the production of these fields the global aggregate decline rate of all fields currently in production is estimated to be 4.5 percent, the study finds.


Why bother mentioning that 60% of the existing fields examined were not experiencing production declines when the overall production decline is 4.5%? It smells of an attempt to sweeten the pill.
Despite recessionary pressures the first three quarters of 2009 have produced discoveries with collective reserves more than 8bnb.
That is hardly encouraging. Why don't they put that in context? We'd need to be finding far more than that to keep the balance sheet static.
The peaking of global oil demand -- rather than scale and deliverability of below ground resources -- could have a major impact on the flow of supply, the report finds. IHS CERA's analysis finds that oil demand has already peaked in developed countries.
Utter hogwash. Only legislation, economic contraction or supply contraints (and hence higher prices) will decrease demand. Peak demand is just a vacuous soundbite for the hard of thinking.
"Supply evolution through 2030 is not a question of resource availability," Jackson added. "The crucial issue lies not belowground. It is the aboveground factors that will dictate the ultimate shape of the supply curve."
That's the get-out clause. "We've assumed huge amounts of investment in yet-to-be-developed fields and exploration to find the gargantuan yet-to-be-discovered fields, but if that's shown to be a load of horsecrap we can always blame it on the economic situation'.
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Re: THE Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA) Thread (merg

Unread postby Maddog78 » Wed 18 Nov 2009, 09:07:16

:lol: Geez, I said no problem for 5 years in that Oil Discoveries thread and pstarr ripped on me bad.
This might make him lose it completely like he did a week ago. :twisted: :P
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