THE EEStor Thread (merged)

[sparky]

.

The grid exist because it provide unrestricted power on a demand basis at 15 cents a Kilowatt


diesel back up exist because , associated wit uninterrupted power supplies,
you could be in a surgery theater and not worry about a drop in supplies

.

[JRP3]

by shallow cycling they would have a very long life..

Is a battery that is never used, still a battery? A battery is there presumably to be used. Avoiding going over a certain DOD, or firing up a gas or diesel generator occasionally to top it off, is all part of why they suck and why it's holding back off-grid and EV adoption.

So the starting battery in your car is not a battery, since it's shallow cycled and never uses it's full capacity? It's called properly sizing a battery, and I've outlined how it can be done rather cheaply using 100 year old lead acid technology. Newer large scale prismatics may have gotten cheap enough, have more usable capacity, and may last long enough that they make sense for off grid usage in the long run, the jury is still out on their calendar life. Is it ideal, of course not, does it compete with centrally generated power that comes from transmission lines right in front of your house, of course not. The fact is that large scale electricity generation is really cheap and you won't be able to beat it unless it gets much more expensive and/or some miracle "EESTOR" type technology actually appears, and is affordable. However for some people living far enough from the grid battery systems are already cheaper than trying to connect to the grid.

[TheAntiDoomer]

Hamilton: Race is on to build a better electric-car battery

http://www.thestar.com/business/cleanbr ... ar-battery

ZENN, you may recall, owns a minority stake in Texas-based EEStor Inc., which is building a new energy-storage device based on ultracapacitor technology that could – if it works as promised – render conventional electro-chemical batteries obsolete. In addition to ZENN's 10.7 per cent ownership of EEStor, the company also has exclusive rights to use the technology in vehicles with a curb weight of up to 1,400 kilograms.

The Star in March 2006 was the first newspaper in the world to write about EEStor, which is partly funded by venture capital powerhouse Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers and has collaborated with Lockheed Martin to develop power-packed military weapons.

[mos6507]

However for some people living far enough from the grid battery systems are already cheaper than trying to connect to the grid.

My main interest in the topic is to root for renewable build-out for the masses. That a token few off-gridders living in the boonies can make the cost-benefit assessment work on a lead acid battery bank when they weigh their options is irrelevant.

[mos6507]

Hamilton: Race is on to build a better electric-car battery

http://www.thestar.com/business/cleanbr ... ar-battery

There he is proudly posing in front of cars that he will no longer be manufacturing.

[TheAntiDoomer]

Secretive Startup EEStor Worth More Than $1.5 Billion

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/eestor/#Replay

EEStor, the ultracapacitor company that has produced more obscure technology milestone announcements than evidence of a working energy storage unit, may have an implied market value of more than $1.5 billion.

The secretive startup in Austin, Texas, claims to have developed a new kind of capacitor that can store enough energy to propel an electric car 300 miles on a single charge. The company is not publicly traded, so investors who want to speculate on its “breakthrough technology” claims have only one way to get in on the action: Zenn Motor Company (ZNN: CA) That publicly traded Canadian firm, which first made an equity investment in EEStor in 2007, has upped its stake at each key milestone, culminating in a 10.7% ownership stake today. As a result, investors in effect get a small investment in EEStor as part of the deal.

[mos6507]

That doesn't say anything. Mark Cuban was paid close to 6 billion dollars for Broadcast.com and what became of it?

[Demoth]

There is one possible reason for EEStor's continued silence and this could well involve Lockheed Martin. The smart grid projects have been classified to an extent even before Obama was in office. Someone could have told them to keep quiet.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/160075- ... smart-grid

http://www.greentechnologydaily.com/sma ... rid-market

http://www.greentechnologydaily.com/sol ... wer-system

If this technology pans out, it is indeed the next lightbulb. Even if the ceramics turn out to be too fragile for a vehicle power plant at this time, a cheap, compact and set/forget way to store any type of off grid or off peak grid power is major. First run specs with 1 million charge cycles before significant degradation occurs makes lead acid batteries look like a stone age hand axe.

Really, it's wait and see. I really can't see the names behind EEStor risking serious prison time for some kind of Zenn stock kickback. I'm hoping if this tech is legit, the feds will make EEStor share the patent rights with all comers for a minimal cost, thus making it widely and quickly adopted.

I'd also recommend against buying Zenn stock as they are parasites at this point and will be a confounding factor in getting this technology spread as fast as it should be.

[JRP3]

I'm hoping if this tech is legit, the feds will make EEStor share the patent rights with all comers for a minimal cost, thus making it widely and quickly adopted.

I wouldn't count on that at all.

[BigTex]

...tick tock...tick tock...

Waiting

for

something

to

happen

[pstarr]

...tick tock...tick tock...

Waiting

for

something

to

happen

How long have you bee waiting? How many excuses?

[Demoth]

Really, at this point- it is not about excuses and missed deadlines. Only a handful of investors and zen stock holders have anything to gripe over.

The science behind a barium/ceramic super capacitor with almost instant charge times, very long life and battery like storage capacity is possible. EEStore's initial claims look plain outlandish.

So, it's really just a fun game at this point, watching to see if this silver bullet is the real McCoy. And silver bullet it would be. Just the shift from lithium batteries to bulk ceramics coated with barium sprinkles is huge, economically and environmentally.

I also agree that if this technology was everything Richard Weir has initially claimed, someone would have informed the White House by now and EEstor would be front page news. Or for the nuts out there, Weir would have been killed by black helicopters by now. I also agree it makes zero sense for EEstor to be working on the full assembly line before a working prototype.

The fact EEstor had invested so soon into production then suddenly went silent lends itself to guess they encountered a major problem that made this tech unsuitable for auto useage. Either the ceramics are too delicate, the temp range is too narrow, the unit explodes violently on impact or it plain just does not work. Any number of things could have happened.

The notion this was and is a scam is very possible but makes about as much sense as starting a production line before a working prototype. Small initial investments considering the amount confirmed spent and little potential for a big pump and dump since so many eyes are on them. Most scam artist would also steer well away from defense contractors simply due to routine security checks.

So, with a big grain of salt and a lot of cynicsm, I follow EEstor simply because it's the most credible of all the snake oil.

[BigTex]

Richard Weir hard at work at his Austin facility...

[pstarr]

Back in 2006-08-25 you had more faith when you introduced this thread:

This technology is a lot more interesting than most alternative energy solutions. Think about it before you say it won't work and can't be scaled to replace fossil fuel dependent systems.

Such bitterness

[BigTex]

Back in 2006-08-25 you had more faith when you introduced this thread:

This technology is a lot more interesting than most alternative energy solutions. Think about it before you say it won't work and can't be scaled to replace fossil fuel dependent systems.

Such bitterness

Dorothy had a lot of faith too when she first arrived at the Emerald City.

[Daniel_Plainview]

Tick tock ... tick tock ... tick tock ...

Hit or Miss?: The Clock is Ticking on These 5 Greentech Deadlines

EEStor to ZENN: The CEO of electric vehicle maker ZENN, Ian Clifford, has been waiting for stealthy ultracapacitor company EEStor to deliver to Zenn its first commercial units by the end of this year, reported The Toronto Star in October. So? Well, we haven’t heard about that breakthrough yet and EEStor has been telling the media that 2010 is now the “make or break year.” Zenn has said it is basically betting the entirety of its business model on building vehicles around EEStor’s technology, so the milestone is kind of a big deal. Sounds like yet another missed deadline for the company.

[gnm]

I wonder if auntie-d and oily bought a bunch of stock! How are things in corny land guys? Do you have flying cars there yet?

Reminds me of the "solar-ball" guy I had an argument on here with years ago. Was going to change the world! What a joke.

Kind of like the vapid promises of hopeechangee.....

-G

[Demoth]

Of interest- this link was a recent Lockheed conference as of this post. Watch the two interviews after the junk at the start (1 min in). Maybe watch the video first before being influenced by my own opinion.


http://www.youtube.com/user/eestorblog# ... UKGpqdad0E

These people are Lockheed execs (you can Google them). Look at the facial reactions. Note how the Lockheed F.B... (I mean) media relations woman had to rein in the VP of Energy Initiative over his obvious excitment about EESTOR. She starts hissing at him as soon as EESTOR is mentioned (turn up your volume) and gets more frantic till he stops. Then observe his fearful glances at her as he tries to divert conversation to solar storage. Media relations seems like a pretty powerful department at Lockheed Land...

In the second interview, I would suggest that Ken Van Meter was more afraid than annoyed when EESTOR was mentioned. Of course, these are all just subjective interpretations of what I watched. *Shrug*

So, as I see things, EESTOR may be known of widely within Lockheed Martin and, at the very least, the science behind it is promising enough to continue trying to integrate it into a wider sector than publicized. There is also some incentive to keep it all secret without discrediting Weir as a con artist. Lockheed is staking their reputation in a way on Weir at least thinking he is onto something.

It is possible this is nothing more than some cheap and well crafted distraction to keep the competition on edge. Other possible tin foil cap theories as to the silence are that higher ups know about the feasibility of fast implementation but want to let China burn more money in lithium infrastructures. Or maybe someone wants Zenn, a Canadian company, to lose patience and sell it's rights to a front entity? Maybe I'm just making wild guesses? Or maybe EESTOR is all bunk? (The answer is the second from the last)!

Either way, few things EESTOR related make sense. 'Missles and Fire Control', by the way, is code for 'Super Secret Stuff that can be Locked Away Indefinitely'. Even Chris Wallace wouldn't get a call back if he left a message there.

Ultimately, battery tech is out (not dead though). Super caps could be (almost everything else is!) far more scaleable upwards exponentially with advances in materials and nano-technology than chemical storage. If EESTOR isn't the one, someone pretty soon will be.

By the way, just incase EESTOR is legit and something fishy does happen, I suggest a wide variety of people archive the actual videos from links and such like this that they come across and are verified!

[mos6507]

"Look at the facial reactions."

I wonder what their facial reactions are now, considering EESTOR just blew its most recent milestone.

[drew]

Yeah, my facial reaction was one of sadness.....

however.... they did get one of their secret patents granted the other day!

I just hope all the wrangling that's been going on with the USPTO gets sorted before Zenn goes broke.

Some of the wars they've been having are going on 3 years now.

I don't think EEStor will show the world anything till they have enough patents granted.

Drew