THE Iran Thread pt 4 (merged)

[deMolay]

You can read about the new Canadian Psiphon technology here. The Canadians have been meddling more than Obama. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Technology ... story.html

[bratticus]

Sesawe is an international consortium working to support uncensored access to the Internet >> https://www.sesawe.net/

[Graeme]

Bullets and Barrels

The popular uprising unfolding in Iran right now really is remarkable. It is the rarest of rare things — more rare than snow in Saudi Arabia, more unlikely than finding a ham sandwich at the Wailing Wall, more unusual than water-skiing in the Sahara. It is a popular uprising in a Middle Eastern oil state.

Why is this so unusual? Because in most Middle East states, power grows out of the barrel of a gun and out of a barrel of oil — and that combination is very hard to overthrow.

Oil is a key reason that democracy has had such a hard time emerging in the Middle East, except in one of the few states with no oil: Lebanon. Because once kings and dictators seize power, they can entrench themselves, not only by imprisoning their foes and killing their enemies, but by buying off their people and using oil wealth to build huge internal security apparatuses.

There is only one precedent for an oil-funded autocrat in the Middle East being toppled by a people’s revolution, not by a military coup, and that was in ... Iran.

I am rooting for them and fearing for them. Any real moderation of Iran’s leadership would have a hugely positive effect on the Middle East. But we and the reformers must have no illusions about the bullets and barrels they are up against.

nytimes

[dorlomin]

the Capitalists of Germany.

Fixed it for you are you grasp of history seems so tenuous.

[deMolay]

Cute little joke Dorlormin. Here is a link to the National Socialist Party or NAZI Party of Germany. Hitler was a butchering Socialist about 40 Million in total died because of his Insane Socialism. http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Natio ... alism.aspx The Commies Murdered over 100 Million more you can read about their butchery here. www.ninecommentaries.com

[deMolay]

A further update on the Crisis in Iran. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1191460/

[deMolay]

Rafsanjani ally calls for ‘political bloc’
By Najmeh Bozorgmehr and Roula Khalaf in Tehran

Published: June 21 2009 23:32 | Last updated: June 21 2009 23:32

A political party affiliated with Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani, the former president and key member of the Iranian regime, on Sunday called on Mir-Hossein Moussavi, the opposition leader, to form a “political bloc” that would pursue a long-term campaign to undermine the “illegitimate” government.

Hossein Marashi, spokesman for the Kargozaran, stayed clear of directly challenging the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, but told the Financial Times in a telephone interview that Mr Moussavi was now the leader of an opposition that was not without options.

EDITOR’S CHOICE
At least 10 dead in Iranian violence - Jun-21.Tensions deepen as UK rebuffs Tehran claims - Jun-21.Global Insight: Obama’s pragmatism avoids neocon trap - Jun-21.Protests over election result thunder on - Jun-21.Iran foreign minister sees more British agents - Jun-21.In depth: Iran election - Jun-14..His comments suggest that some in the opposition are looking at future strategies as they seek to capitalise on an extraordinarily passionate street movement but realise the regime is determined not to respond to protesters’ demands for an annulment of the results of the June 12 presidential poll, which declared Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad the winner.

“With the lack of legitimacy of the Ahmadi-Nejad government, sooner or later the country’s management will face various crises,” he said. “Mr Moussavi should set up an official political front which can embrace the defenders of the real Islamic republic . . . against those who are distorting it and are represented by Mr Ahmadi-Nejad.”

Mr Marashi said the front was his own proposal but that it was “most likely” to be adopted, even as the opposition continues to demand a rerun of the vote. Mr Rafsanjani, he said, would be able to help such a front from his “legal and political positions”.

Mr Marashi spoke after four of Mr Rafsanjani’s relatives were arrested during protests that turned bloody on Saturday. The opposition had defied warnings from Ayatollah Khamenei, who had also backed the outcome of the election in a speech on Friday.

Three of the relatives were released but Mr Rafsanjani’s most outspoken daughter, Faezeh, was still being interrogated on Sunday. Fars news agency insisted the detentions had been made to safeguard the women’s safety.

State television said that 10 people were killed in Saturday’s violence in Tehran, blaming the deaths on “armed terrorist elements”. Mr Moussavi, however, laid responsibility for the violence on the government and insisted that street protests should be pursued.

Adding to the tension, footage on the Facebook networking site showed a young woman supporter of Mr Moussavi being shot in the chest during the Saturday protests. The graphic footage, which was widely viewed, showed the woman dying in front of her father who desperately tried to save her.

Tehran was quiet on Sunday, but tensions remained high. Mohammad Khatami, the former reformist president, who has backed Mr Moussavi, warned that “preventing people from expressing their demands through civil ways will have dangerous consequences [for the country]”.

Mr Marashi said he doubted people were tiring of the demonstrations and predicted that they would find “new ways” to protest. “I must admit they are ahead of politicians and we are behind them,” he said.

But he said that was one reason that Mr Moussavi now had to lead by gathering all those in the opposition under one front.

Mr Moussavi, he added, was “not the leader of the opposition to the system. He is the leader of a majority who think their rights are trampled on by Mr Ahmadi-Nejad and the Guardian Council.”

.Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009

[deMolay]

The Story of Neda. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/ ... r.neda.cnn

[Keith_McClary]

On the idiot box tonight the talking heads were fretting about the evil ayatollahs brutally suppressing dissent, while in the background videos of demonstrators throwing rocks at police and burning buses and buildings.


If demonstrators were doing this in US or occupied Iraq or Palestine, they would be called "terrorists" and thousands would be massacred (remember Kent State and Fallujah ).

[rangerone314]

Why does it always devolve into a fight about Obama being a tool of the Illuminati or something and other people think he is our savior from Bush? People really expect to much.

Does anyone here know what a Plutocracy is? It is rule by the rich. It doesn't matter whether the puppet-master is Bush or Obama; and plutocracy is not some conspiracy -- it is simply people and companies looking after their money and interests. It isn't a conspiracy when people rush for the exits when there is a fire in a nightclub; they are all panicked animals acting on instinct. People moving in the same direction isn't always an Illuminati conspiracy.

[evgeny]

It would be nice to see an Orange Revolution in Iran, but I really think this is gonna blow over in a couple weeks and that will be that.

The only thing I can say is that I think there probably wouldn't have been as much support for moderate candidates if McCain were president. Iran has backed itself into a corner with the international community and Obama provides iran with a face-saving way out that never would have been possible with Bush or McCain. That's got to start looking appealing to the average Iranian who is seeing their quality of life steadily degrade.

International community, it's not only USA and Israel .

[rangerone314]

Assuming the protestors don't give up soon, this is going to end one way: Tiennenman square...

A government that sent teenagers & children running to clear minefields during the Iraq-Iran War is not going to worry about using force to stay in power...

[rangerone314]

Are there any websites that are gambling on the outcome of the Iranian situation?

You could probably make some money betting on the Iranian gov's continuity right now...

[mos6507]

Assuming the protestors don't give up soon, this is going to end one way: Tiennenman square...

If that's the way it ends, then we'll be rewarding Iran with most favored nation trading status.

[rangerone314]

Assuming the protestors don't give up soon, this is going to end one way: Tiennenman square...

If that's the way it ends, then we'll be rewarding Iran with most favored nation trading status.

LOL, you're a sick pup, like me! But only if they sell us cheap crap like China.

It isn't Fall of Iran now though, it is Summer of Iran.

[Novus]

I heard in a news report the other day mentioned in passing that there has been a huge demographic shift in Iran since the 1979 revolution. Iran is an extremely youthful in the literal sense that 70% of the population is too young to remember the revolution. This in contrast to America which is mostly older boomers and gen-X who clearly remember the Iran that stormed the US embassy in 1979.

So we have too things here: A young population with a high propensity to riot and population that has little attachment to the revolution that swept Iran a generation ago. I would not be surprised if a new more secular revolution took place and the religious fundamentalists lose power here.

[evgeny]

Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia claims to respect for the choice of the Iranian people

RIA Novosti | 20:48:06

Russia respects the choice of the Iranian people who voted in the presidential election of current President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and was ready to continue to develop mutually beneficial cooperation with Iran and good relations. With regard to the events that followed the elections in Iran, then in Moscow consider it entirely an internal affair of that country. This is stated in the statement of Russian MFA.

[deMolay]

It will be interesting if the Strait of Hormuz closes.

[rangerone314]

Would be kind of a shame if they toppled the gov in Iran. I'd kind of miss that billy goat Mahmoud & his scruff face, and the sinister-looking ayatollahs.

Seriously, I think Darth Sidious was wimpy in "Revenge of the Sith" - he screamed like a girl sometimes. Remember the Ayatollah Khomeni from the 80's?

Just imagine Khomeni with a black Sith cloak, red lightsaber and shooting lightning out of his fingers... hate to meet that in a dark alley.

On the otherhand, Kim Jong-il is only scary because he has nukes. I can picture him dressing up like a Teletubby for Halloween.

[Pretorian]

Mousavi could abandon the nutty Holocaust denial and anti-semitism of the current regime....

Any idea of present Iran's standing on shmolocast of Poles by Swedes during the 30-year war? What is your personal standing on that one. Do you deny it or do you support it?