Anone up4 joining SeaGypsy?

[threadbear]

I HOPE to get a motor sailor one day, SGypsy. I think they will hold their value much better than a motor boat. Sailing isn't quite so romantic where I am. It's cold on the water, better to be inside the boat, most of the year. But the silence would be just great, and it's more environmentally friendly. Motor sailors seem like a good compromise. My husband would like to get a boat and take it to Hawaii. I think I could make it on a sailboat. I don't get sea sick, usually. We'd have to crew up, though, because the watches would be brutal, otherwise.

[SeaGypsy]

I HOPE to get a motor sailor one day, SGypsy. I think they will hold their value much better than a motor boat. Sailing isn't quite so romantic where I am. It's cold on the water, better to be inside the boat, most of the year. But the silence would be just great, and it's more environmentally friendly. Motor sailors seem like a good compromise. My husband would like to get a boat and take it to Hawaii. I think I could make it on a sailboat. I don't get sea sick, usually. We'd have to crew up, though, because the watches would be brutal, otherwise.

Hi Threadbare, did you check out my link to the Jochems' family schooner? It has a fully raised full length deck, which gives the option of control from on deck or within the cabin.

Environment is a consideration on top of what I have already said; but Peak Oil and pending economic disaster are right up there on the list.

[Dawn]

No, I didn't give any advice. I was asking an honest question. Say you go boating when the weather is nice. Then suddenly you can see a storm coming. You're close to an island on the lake, but for some (strange) reason you choose to race the storm to shore inland. The storm beats you there.

my advice is in every seafarers manual since time immemorial. The reason to stay away from shore is simple: deep water soaks up surface turbulence; shallow water magnifies it.
Also your chance of running into a solid object are highest near shore.

Lake Erie is shallow. I appreciate this explanation more.

[SeaGypsy]

No, I didn't give any advice. I was asking an honest question. Say you go boating when the weather is nice. Then suddenly you can see a storm coming. You're close to an island on the lake, but for some (strange) reason you choose to race the storm to shore inland. The storm beats you there.

The best crewmate has a name: Experience.

[SeaGypsy]

Here's what happens when you sail with a lee shore into a cyclone; today's news from Australia:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 513653.htm


"We're always concerned that ships shouldn't be moving in and out of Moreton Bay Marine Park during such conditions, they should perhaps be asked to wait offshore until such conditions pass," he said.

[Newfie]

Last week we went to Florida to look at a 52 foot CSK catamaran. It is a nice boat but not suitable for our immediate needs. Not sure of asking price but I think it is $139K.

CSK's are older designs from Rudy Choy. This one is a 1981 fiberglass over ply. It is a ketch and not as big as it sounds. The rig is really quite small.

We did not get to sail on it as the owner had some problems and the boat was unexpectedly out of the water.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Cu ... as/Bahamas

We also looked at a custom 46' motor sailer that we are still arguing about.

The CSK is a warm water boat even though it is well insulated. My sailing and bug out place are in the high latitudes so the motor sailer makes more sense.

Still, we are not there yet. Grumble, moan, !@#$%$#@!!!

[katkinkate]

Hi SeaGypsy. I've been listening to Radio National (ABC Aust) while munching my breakfast toast and they had an interview from someone representing the Seasteading Institute. They had a longish discussion on building floating cities in international waters to provide space for new nation/city states and room for political/social experimentation. I immediately thought of you and your fellow boating enthusiasts. The interview can be found here: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/futuretense/stories/2009/2509637.htm.

[ReverseEngineer]

Last week we went to Florida to look at a 52 foot CSK catamaran. It is a nice boat but not suitable for our immediate needs. Not sure of asking price but I think it is $139K.

You want to sail to Newfoundland or to Tahiti? That is just way more boat than you need. Go for something trailerable, keep the costs down and spend the rest of the money on more and better preps.

[Newfie]

Last week we went to Florida to look at a 52 foot CSK catamaran. It is a nice boat but not suitable for our immediate needs. Not sure of asking price but I think it is $139K.

You want to sail to Newfoundland or to Tahiti?

Not quite right. Greenland and Tahiti, in that order. I'm already sailing in Newfoundland. I was looking for a different boat that would meet the various needs of my Wife.

If it were just me, I've already got MY boat. I'm trying to look out for others.

[SeaGypsy]

Last week we went to Florida to look at a 52 foot CSK catamaran. It is a nice boat but not suitable for our immediate needs. Not sure of asking price but I think it is $139K. --snip--
The CSK is a warm water boat even though it is well insulated. My sailing and bug out place are in the high latitudes so the motor sailer makes more sense.

How many is your minimum crew? The cat will need at least 4 very fit adults to sail optimally.

You need a real pro to check out the condition of the fiberglass on it also; 30 years almost old? Fiberglass doesn't last very long if it's been left unpainted for any length of time, or allowed to sit in the water without regular anti fouling.

Don't ask me about motor sailors, I don't like them. As I mentioned they stink, catch fire and vibrate then eventually run out of fuel.
Regardless of latitude, motor sailors are called that because they rely on the motor. I don't want to rely on a motor.

[SeaGypsy]

Hi SeaGypsy. I've been listening to Radio National (ABC Aust) while munching my breakfast toast and they had an interview from someone representing the Seasteading Institute. They had a longish discussion on building floating cities in international waters to provide space for new nation/city states and room for political/social experimentation. I immediately thought of you and your fellow boating enthusiasts. The interview can be found here: link.

You can make anything float: link These ideas have been around a very long time. Personally the best boat for the least money is what puts wind in my sails.

[SeaGypsy]

Something here for the other oddballs like me who think you don't need to be a millionaire to build a boat and cross an ocean on it.
link And this one: link

[ki11ercane]

Cruising about with the Yachties has a nice romantic flavor to it, but in a crash scenario would have a lot of problems, from safety to spare parts to keeping the galley stocked and having fuel to cook with. --snip-- I think Lake Superior or Lake Winipeg might be pretty good places to live on a boat and not too dangerous. Still tough to get spare parts though.

Lake Winnipeg is awesome to live on when it's not frozen over with 4 feet of ice 6 months of the year. However around the lake (lots of cottage areas around the lake) is the place to be. Fishing, hunting, and lots of trees.

And your in Manitoba, Canada, smack dab in the middle of the continent. Being a native of Winnipeg for 35 years, if you can survive our winters, you can survive anything.

[SeaGypsy]

Lake Winnipeg is awesome to live on when it's not frozen over with 4 feet of ice 6 months of the year. However around the lake (lots of cottage areas around the lake) is the place to be.

I'm not much use in the ice department! I heard on the grapevine that the Mississippi River has been dangerous for a few years, mainly from opportunistic theft. But aside from that I know very little about what the USA and Canada are like currently from a waterways perspective.
So more posts in the line of RE's& Skymore's would be great on this thread. My specialty is the waters of Australia, both inland and ocean/
the Torres Straits between PNG and Australia / Indonesia and the waters around the northernmost islands in the Philippines. I've never sailed on a lake or river that has frozen since the last ice age.

I am planning two major expeditions over the next 18 months exploring the busiest and quietest routes between the Phlippines and Australia. The busy one is a no alcohol route via Muslim Mindanao, Borneo, Celebes, Timor; the quiet route via Southern Micronesia, New Britain (PNG) then either down the archipelago to Vanuatu,or around the 'Kangaroo Tail' at the Easternmost end of PNG mainland. Anyone interested in remote jungle should have a maplandia google at this part of the world. The famous Trobriand Islands (Kiriwina)are in this area; the only place in thew world with a fully fledged ancient civilization functioning without either God or Money right up until the present.Though somewhat adulterated now, I have studied the culture and it's one place in the world I would love to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trobriand_Islands

[SeaGypsy]

The perfect fast escape vehicle for coastal people.
The hoverwing is a miniature wing in ground effect vehicle; in other words a low powered low flying aircraft/ hovercraft. Some great vids on youtube of these gizmos if interested. They can cruise at 65mph 6/ 10 feet from the surface depending on the size of the craft. They use less than 25% of the fuel a light aircrat uses per mile making them similar in efficiecy to a small car.

http://www.hovercraft.com/content/index ... ex&cPath=2

I think a houseboat on a remote swamp with one of these for shopping/ trips would be a serious transition mode and alternative doomstead.

[Micki]

Currently I am based in Philippines fly in fly out to Central Australia to work. I am finalizing plans for my 'Doomship' which certainly won't be called that.
I am a devotee of Dmitry Orlov. His article 'A new Age of Sail' is along the lines of what I want to try. --snip-- Anyone keen to join in? Or do similar in other regions of the globe?

Sounds tempting with or without PO...if only my other half was half as adventrous as me.
Just wondering how you are going to do the gardening on a sailboat. It does however bring to memory my suggestion from some time ago about guerilla farming. i.e. you pick a spot in the forest and plant something that doesn't need much care. As long as there isn't other people around finding your stuff it might work.
Remember also Lionharts seconf trip? He took a bunch of rookies with him on a circumnavigation. They got from Sydney to about Gosford, when the toilet stopped working. 1 week later the trip was cancelled as they were all fighting.
You need some pretty motivated people for this who have realistic expectations. The fact that nearly everyone might be strangers to eachother makes things harder also. The social interactions take time to work out. Anyway, send us some shots if you make progress and good luck.

[SeaGypsy]

I'm actually a bit skeptical about the whole safety in numbers idea a few people have posted. In the parts of the world I am planning to be in there are core old remnant civilizations which I have confidence will have remnant survivors even in a catasrophic economic collapse. Indigenous knowledge. Trading skills, linguistic skills, knowing how the subtle plane effects experience. Yes guerilla farming is hugely possble in high rainfall tropics. Personally I would rather have a very tight very small crew who can be trusted to keep their mouths shut. An iterpreter for each leg of a long journey is a must. I speak Pidgin & some Bahasa Malay/ Indonesia, my wife speaks 3 dialects of native Filipino languages My diplomatic ability is extreme in difficult situations.

[ReverseEngineer]

I'm not much use in the ice department! I heard on the grapevine that the Mississippi River has been dangerous for a few years, mainly from opportunistic theft. But aside from that I know very little about what the USA and Canada are like currently from a waterways perspective. --snip-- The famous Trobriand Islands (Kiriwina)are in this area; the only place in thew world with a fully fledged ancient civilization functioning without either God or Money right up until the present.Though somewhat adulterated now, I have studied the culture and it's one place in the world I would love to go.

I'll contribute a few more ideas to the Yachtie Tribe idea, since it does cross my mind occassionally as a conceivable means of long term survival if you have sufficient people and boats involved with sufficient protection

Of course the Polynesian people survived as a seafaring bunch with very primitive boats for the most part. No doubt, you can do a lot better than a simple outrigger canoe with a sail, even on a small budget. As indicated in the thread previously, you can put together boats that can handle ocean voyages for very little money long as you don't mind some deprivation. Since your land based life is bound to be deprived anyhow, not much difference there.

Whether you are working the islands in the south pacific, coastal sections of the continents or the Great Lakes, in the Planning Stages yoo need to scope out as many survivable landfalls as possible, those without any current town nearby that are remote from land access. The boats are your transportation, you do not really want to be living on them at sea most of the time. Big boats really aren't good, too expensive, take too big sails and masts you can't replace, etc. You just want the mobility and the ability to stay on the boat for maybe a month at sea if necessary, hopefully not often. I favor a Trimaran configuration of low draft, sloop rigged. As mentioned, I like the Farrier folding trimarans quite a bit, in the 22-30 foot range. Extremely fast craft as sailboats go also, much faster than keelboats of similar waterline.

I think on your identified holes, you travel around during planting season to get foodstuffs growing that don;t take maintenance during the growing season. I don;t know however what would be good choices, and it would differ obviously on cliimate. Identifying good fishing areas is also important here. This will change over time, but if you want to be Locked and Loaded for a fast crash, best you go out and find some good spots now.

You will need weaponry, but as mentioned right now if you carry weapons aboard your boat it could get you into trouble. So I would cache weapons somewhere you deem safe now, but can collect quickly when TSTF.

The more tech stuff you can prep up with now the better for the short term, like solar panels, wind generators etc. However, realize these will give out over time and you won;t be able to replace them. So depend on them as little as possible and just try to use what you can collect at your various holes ad fishing grounds. Your Sails will be the hardest thing to keep going after maybe 5-19 years. If you can't find a way to make saicloth yourselves, you will have problems retaining the mobility and get stuck on some island somewhere.

[SeaGypsy]

Sails can be much simplr and lower maintenace than the modern gear for a fairly small loss in efficiency. Look into crab claw and junk rigs, simple and quiet as well as capable of supporting a grass/ palm thatch sail.
A friend and I are messing around with getting a long stroke Briggs and Stratton 16 horse petrol motor to run from gassified vegetation or even garbage like fishing nets, not as anything more than a backup for doldrums or smashed rigging.

The 2 worries I have with RE's point on numbers are: more people = more mouths to feed and make trouble+ a large movement of craft or flotilla could be seen as a military target.

I think you want to really know your area and have lots of friends along the way; friends in remote places are not hard to make: hence my inlusion of trading skills as a key concern.

[ReverseEngineer]

The 2 worries I have with RE's point on numbers are: more people = more mouths to feed and make trouble+ a large movement of craft or flotilla could be seen as a military target.
I think you want to really know your area and have lots of friends along the way; friends in remote places are not hard to make: hence my inlusion of trading skills as a key concern.

Although your overall community might be large, I don;t think you want to have ALL of them in a mass flotilla together at any time. Remember you have multilple locations and multipple boats to work with here. You want to stay "under the radar" in terms of numbers moving together at any time, but also travel in sufficient numebrs for some safety. A community in total of 100 boats, 10 to a boat, which travels in packs of 10 boats at a time seems a good number set up to me. You should always have split up and redezvous protocols set up in advance, if set upon by a Pirate, the flottilla breaks up and the priate goes after one unfortunate victim, but the other 9 rendezvous at a predertimened place and time.

Remember also the importance of NOT depending on GPS navigation. How good are you with a sextant on a small boat Sea Gypsy? That is tricky and takes practice.