[Food] Production – Gardening, General pt 2

[roadrunner]

DD where did you buy the hoops you are using to keep the plastic(or is it some special kind) up? I'd like to get some for my garden. I've never given a 4 season harvest a thought but if you could do that there I think I could here in the upper north east. Can you give me a quick run down of when you plant for your 4 seasons? I am really impressed by the pictures!

[careinke]

It looks like DD is using a modified Square foot gardening system. The hoops are plastic electrical conduit. The vertical nets are made using aluminum conduit and a pipe bender. You can buy a net to tie on that supposedely have a lifetime guarantee. Unfortunately, for me, the nets start deteriorating at about the three year point. You can get it all at Home depot.

Here is a link to the Square Foot Gardening site. Square foot gardening

Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)

[DoubleD]

I use a hybrid mix of wide row, square foot, and bio intensive gardening methods - all overlaid by four season harvest techniques. I find none of the above by themselves is a good fit for me - but the best from each when combined produces a very efficient and productive food production garden. A good book that describes pretty much the same mixture of methods as I employ is:

"Mini Farming for Self Sufficiency" by Brett L. Markham

It's a good concise, well organized recap and has alot of useful summarized information in it. If you want to delve into any of the topics further though - you will have to read each of the original sources and tease it out for yourself.

To answer the question about the hoop supports - they are 10' sticks of electricians conduit - with the connector end sawed off. I designed the beds so that their supports are made form 18" metal pipes pounded into the ground every 4 feet so that the top of the pipe is flush with the top of the board edging. The pipes are then bolted to the boards near the walkway ground level - such that the bolt creates the floor upon which the PVC Hoop Supports then rest when inserted. If you check out my website (link in my siggy) and go to the 2008 garden photos - down towards the bottom of the pics are spring/summer time pictures and in several of them you can see the pipe supports I am talking about.

The one thing that must be understood about four season harvesting - is that you have to get nature on your side for that to work. By this I mean, you need to only try to overwinter cold hardy plants and the plants need to be MATURE going into the winter if you intend to eat on them through those months. Four season harvesting is about holding the plants in a healthy state of limbo - ready for harvest when you are - during the cold dark days of winter. The lack of sun strength and warmth means that the plants essentially stop growing altogether - so if they are not already mature and ready for harvest prior to that occuring - then you will not see a harvest until the following spring (at best).

Having said that - I do have a large crop of spinach I am overwinter that did not make it to maturity prior to the cold/dark days of winter. However, I continue to protect the bed because they will resume growing and really take off very early in the spring - providing fresh greens in mid February when nothing else is really producing.

My regular overwintering crops:

spinach (needs grow tunnel cover)
corn salad (no cover - shoots to maturity in early February)
Carrots
Parsnips
kale
swiss chard (needs protection of a cold frame or grow tunnel)
brussel sprouts

We are eating on all of these currently with the exception of the spinach - which is not quite ready yet - but soon.

[roadrunner]

Thank you both, careinke and DD. DD I will check out your link. Thank you for sharing so much with me. One fall a couple of years back I didn't get around to pulling all my carrots but I still wanted them and it had actually rained and then snowed on them so I was out digging up blocks of them. They were still good and I was surprised but it seems much easier if I don't have to pick up a block of them and smash it on the ground. LOL That's what it took to get them. I bet I looked funny doing it but hubby didn't say a word. I actually did better the next couple of years and they were all harvested and stored.

[PeakOiler]

Here's my dozen or so broccoli plants so far:



I could have grown about five times that much, but this was my first attempt with this veggie. Next year will be different...

[softhands]

This isn't so much related to gardening as just growing in general...


Ive collected some tree seeds from my area and have stored them in the freezer. I heard this is how you fake winter for them...

Could I start trying to grow them(I think its either pine/spruce seeds, came from a cone and then some cedar).

Will they just die seeing as they will be indoors until late april?

Has anyone tried this before?

Doesn't seem to be alot on google as far as the timing goes... Even if they grew to fast I could just keep them potted until its time to plant and the bigger they are the more likly they would survive right?

[Ludi]

I've had success starting tree seeds when growth begins outdoors - that is, when I see new leaves coming out on trees and shrubs. Putting your potted seeds outside will enable them to come up at the right time. Otherwise, you'll have to move the seedlings in and out every day to make sure they don't freeze at night and make sure they get enough sunlight. Most tree seedlings like partial to full sun, so the light inside most houses isn't enough for them.

I've had best success with native trees by keeping them in a pot for at least two years before planting out, potting up as needed. The baby trees have been 3 -4 feet tall at planting. They'll need to be irrigated regularly throughout their first year in the ground and possibly their second year if you have a drought.

Natives that I have planted too small and neglected just plain died.

Hope this is somewhat helpful.

[roadrunner]

PeakOiler, those are some nice looking broccoli plants. I put in around 40 last year and plan to do more this year. It is the plant that keeps giving. They sprouted all summer long into the fall and then I let them flower and the bees went wild for about 3 weeks. Which one did you plant? Blue Comet?

[PeakOiler]

PeakOiler, those are some nice looking broccoli plants. I put in around 40 last year and plan to do more this year. It is the plant that keeps giving. They sprouted all summer long into the fall and then I let them flower and the bees went wild for about 3 weeks. Which one did you plant? Blue Comet?

Thanks roadrunner.

The $1.07 package of broccoli seeds at bought at the local grocery says "Green Goliath", aka "Goliat verde."

Do you mean that one can harvest the broccoli crown and the plant will grow another? Is that right? That would be cool!

I guess I should read some more!

[Ludi]

Do you mean that one can harvest the broccoli crown and the plant will grow another? Is that right? That would be cool!

Yes! Some varieties produce more side shoots, so you get prolonged harvests.

Green Goliath is a main head type which also produces side shoots. Just be sure to cut the main head off close to the top of the stem (right under the head), keeping as many leaves on the plant as possible to feed the side shoots.


I have not had any success with broccoli myself (soil not fertile enough when I tried last), so I'm interested to see how you do with this variety.


http://growingtaste.com/vegetables/broccoli.shtml

[PeakOiler]

Yes! Some varieties produce more side shoots, so you get prolonged harvests.

Green Goliath is a main head type which also produces side shoots. Just be sure to cut the main head off close to the top of the stem (right under the head), keeping as many leaves on the plant as possible to feed the side shoots.


I have not had any success with broccoli myself (soil not fertile enough when I tried last), so I'm interested to see how you do with this variety.


http://growingtaste.com/vegetables/broccoli.shtml

Thanks for the link, Ludi. Read and bookmarked it.

[DoubleD]

Nice broccoli plants peakOiler! They are my favorite vegetable and always get a big section of garden bed devoted to them. I like to grow "Umpqua" which is a nice open pollinated variety that produces a great central head - and then folllows up with an abundance of side shoots for an extended period of time. Usually put 16 plants in during spring and another 16 during the mid summer for the fall crop.

[PeakOiler]

Nice broccoli plants peakOiler! They are my favorite vegetable and always get a big section of garden bed devoted to them. I like to grow "Umpqua" which is a nice open pollinated variety that produces a great central head - and then folllows up with an abundance of side shoots for an extended period of time. Usually put 16 plants in during spring and another 16 during the mid summer for the fall crop.

Thanks DoubleD. Broccoli is one of my favorites too.

I think when I transplanted the sprouts from the planter box to the garden I didn't space them far enough apart. I thought more would die, but apparently not. At about what height will the main head start to form? I guess I'll find out soon enough...
It's difficult to tell from the picture, but all those plants are in about a 28" x 24" rectangle. Do you think it's too late to separate them further?

I may just plant some more seed since the package states that in the southern US, one can plant seed through early spring.

[DoubleD]

I plant my brocolli so they are spaced 12 inches apart from each other and they grow beautifully - creating a living mulch with their leaves as the plants mature. Your plants appear to be sized up pretty well and should soon be producing heads, but the maturity of the plant is only one determinant. The amount of sun strength, day length, adequacy of available nutrients - all will have some influence on when a plant will succeed in producing a harvestable crop. Something I have also found to help with boosting production is to side dress my plants with about a tablespoon of all purpose organic fertilizer per plant shortly before I expect them to start producing. This extra shot of of nutrition seems to boost and extend the production.

As to moving them, I definitely would not. You would likely experience significant (if not fatal) transplant shock for plants as mature as these are.

[Ludi]

I have a question: Is pure worm compost too rich to use as a starting medium for seeds? Should I mix it with soil?

[rattleshirt]

Ludi-
Yes mix it with soil. If the nitrogen is to high the seeds will get their rootlets burnt off. They more frail than the adult plants and need much less nitrogen at first. Of course if you let them go to long then they will starve.

[Ludi]

Thank you! Is 50/50 by volume a good mix, or what would you recommend?

[RedStateGreen]

PeakOiler, those are some nice looking broccoli plants. I put in around 40 last year and plan to do more this year. It is the plant that keeps giving. They sprouted all summer long into the fall and then I let them flower and the bees went wild for about 3 weeks. Which one did you plant? Blue Comet?

Thanks roadrunner.

The $1.07 package of broccoli seeds at bought at the local grocery says "Green Goliath", aka "Goliat verde."

Do you mean that one can harvest the broccoli crown and the plant will grow another? Is that right? That would be cool!

I guess I should read some more!

Yep, and the leaves are good too, taste just like broccoli.

[wisconsin_cur]

I have a question: Is pure worm compost too rich to use as a starting medium for seeds? Should I mix it with soil?

I don't know but I use 75+% rabbit manure and it works fine.

[Ludi]

I don't know but I use 75+% rabbit manure and it works fine.

Thanks!