mos6507 wrote:Yep, you are missing something. The bridge between electricity and oil is transport. A significant chunk of transport can be electrified, but we obviously need more capacity and greener production to make that happen.
alochin wrote:You got a good point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sour ... A_2006.png
Although we still have a lot of coal, if we use coal to replace oil (with liquefaction), then our coal supply will last about 50 years. Using renewables to generate electricity will make our coal resource last longer.
Coal is a major cause of climate change which will eventually be a much bigger problem than peak oil.
If we replace our gas guzzlers with electric vehicles, then our electric demand will increase, and that increase should be absorbed by renewable energy sources, so that we don't postpone our energy problems to the next generation.
jamest wrote:Last year we used the energy equivalent of approximately 3 million barrels of oil per day in the form of natural gas in order to generate electricity.
This natural gas could have been used for transportation, displacing oil consumption.
jamest wrote:Last year we used the energy equivalent of approximately 3 million barrels of oil per day in the form of natural gas in order to generate electricity.
This natural gas could have been used for transportation, displacing oil consumption.
Commanding_Heights wrote:jamest wrote:Last year we used the energy equivalent of approximately 3 million barrels of oil per day in the form of natural gas in order to generate electricity.
This natural gas could have been used for transportation, displacing oil consumption.
OK? So now what do you do for the electricity that you just eliminated the feed source from? Use more coal? Windmills? PV?
All of that takes energy to mine or build.
Bill55AZ wrote:jamest wrote:Last year we used the energy equivalent of approximately 3 million barrels of oil per day in the form of natural gas in order to generate electricity.
This natural gas could have been used for transportation, displacing oil consumption.
agree, as does T. Boone Pickens, but lets not overlook that a lot of our peaking plants are dual cycle gas turbine plants that use that natural gas. Coal, hydro, and Nuclear are best for base load, but when those are maxed out, we need the peaking plants to come on line. Oil fired turbines and diesel generators make up some peaking plants.
Base load plants are large, and slow to get started or restarted after an outage. Peaking plants can be rotated on and off grid as needed almost as easily as starting your car.
So we can't divert all that natural gas to transportaion.
Bill55AZ wrote:but it will take a long time to build that bridge, and it only applies to short commutes.
Bill55AZ wrote:Batteries are not an answer if you are looking for green transportation. The materials in them are some nasty stuff.
Bill55AZ wrote:And I have doubts that battery technology is going to advance as quickly as its supporters wish it to.
Bill55AZ wrote:Detroit wants a bailout so they can retool. I wonder what they are aiming for in the retooling effort, smaller cars that burn less gas? or hybrids? or all electric?
Commanding_Heights wrote:OK? So now what do you do for the electricity that you just eliminated the feed source from? Use more coal? Windmills? PV?
All of that takes energy to mine or build.
mos6507 wrote:Commanding_Heights wrote:OK? So now what do you do for the electricity that you just eliminated the feed source from? Use more coal? Windmills? PV?
All of that takes energy to mine or build.
I understand the problem of receding horizons, but at some point we have to get beyond this FUD paralysis and try something. There is no rationalization for inaction.
Commanding_Heights wrote:2. Even if you do achieve the above you're just allowing us to continue an unsubstantiable lifestyle a bit longer. Allowing this is just allowing us to foul our enviroment even more.
Commanding_Heights wrote:I just don't see the free market and democracy getting this off the ground due to greed.
alochin wrote:You got a good point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sour ... A_2006.png
Although we still have a lot of coal, if we use coal to replace oil (with liquefaction), then our coal supply will last about 50 years. Using renewables to generate electricity will make our coal resource last longer.
Coal is a major cause of climate change which will eventually be a much bigger problem than peak oil.
If we replace our gas guzzlers with electric vehicles, then our electric demand will increase, and that increase should be absorbed by renewable energy sources, so that we don't postpone our energy problems to the next generation.
Bill55AZ wrote:Obama is calling for a million all electric cars by 2015. Depends on where you look, I get numbers from 62 million cars on the road, to 250 million registered. One million battery powered cars isn't even a good start....
I would guess that we can save enough gasoline by conserving to be more effective than adding only one million electric cars...
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