THE Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) Thread (merged)

[EnergyUnlimited]

Drilling it now sounds like giving more whiksy for the alkoholic, just to keep him happy. Stupid.
This oil should be kept as kind of final emergency supply.
Once oil cannot be purchased (or stolen ) those small reservers could be used to help with some critical infrastructure changes to move away from oil economy alltogether.

[evilgenius]

The recent attempt by the Republicans in Congress to pass new laws abolishing inheritence tax, even at the cost of increasing the minimum wage, gave me an idea. Since ANWR isn't nearly as egregious a thing to allow as instilling a thousand or so families as economic overlords into the forseeable future the left ought to make a deal over it that gets something real in exchange. Something that if it were put to Bush by itself he would veto, but if it were tied to ANWR he would sign. Therefore, I propose that along with ANWR the left bargain for drastically higher automobile mileage standards. The left ought to tell the right that they can have their elephant, if it is one, but they want at least 32 mpg as an average for all car makers by 2008. Oh, and no special exemptions for SUV's because they get to be considered trucks or something.

[Plantagenet]

Rep. Don Young (R- AK) and Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md) have just introduced a bill in Congress that would open ANWR and mandate that the federal government use the billions of dollars it would receive in leasing and federal tax receipts from the development of ANWR for alternative energy research.
The ANWR money could fund a "Manhattan Project" style alternative energy program.
Unfortunately, the Congress is currently controlled by Nancy Pelosi and the dems, so this bill will go nowhere.

[Plantagenet]

For years Roscoe Bartlett has been the only "peak oil" advocate in the entire congress. His new bill, jointly sponsored with Don Young, says:
"We must act now and illustrate that we are serious about bringing down the high cost of energy and generating good paying jobs in our communities. Abundant, affordable, and secure supplies of energy are essential to this Nation's economic and national security.

Unfortunately, our energy supplies are neither secure nor affordable, and much of the reserves of untapped energy we have right here at home has been placed off-limits by the federal government. As a result of our failure to provide access to our own energy supplies, we now depend on foreign nations for two-thirds of the energy we need to keep America’s economy running. And at today’s prices, the cost of our failure to produce is $1.85 billion per day. This is our energy reality.

We simply cannot afford to ignore this reality any longer. The only real solution to our energy crisis is to increase the domestic production of all available forms of energy with an emphasis on renewable and alternative energies and enhanced conservation and efficiency. We need aggressive federal support for technological advances in efficiency and all domestic sources of energy including coal, oil, and natural gas, nuclear solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, hydroelectric, and ocean energy.

For these reasons, we have introduced H.R. 6107, the American Energy Independence and Price Reduction Act.
Through this legislation, 0.01% of the northern coastal plain of the 19.6 million-acre Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, an area specifically set aside by a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress for the purpose of future energy exploration and development, will be brought online to help alleviate the burden on American families. At the same time, all of the federal revenues from this bill will fund efforts to boost efficiency, production, research, development, and demonstration of already authorized cleaner, renewable and alternative energy technologies essential to completing the puzzle – and it will do so at zero cost to the American taxpayer.

H.R. 6107 will:
• Allow for the environmentally responsible development of ANWR's 30 year, 1 million barrel/day supply.
• Bring online ANWR's additional supply of 1 million barrels per day – the equivalent of what Texas produces daily – in less than five years.
• Deliver more than $200 billion in corporate tax income and royalty revenue to the federal government.
• Bring in $3.5 billion in bonus bids alone.
• Create 250,000-750,000 well paid American jobs; and
• Fund a comprehensive range of renewable and alternative energy provisions authorized – but not fully funded – under current law (EPACT 2005 and EISA 2007).

While there has been significant talk on what to do about energy prices, there has been little action. By increasing domestic supplies of oil by 1 Million barrels per day, H.R. 6107 will increase domestic oil production by 20 percent and fully fund 18 authorized alternative and renewable energy provisions in the process at zero cost to taxpayers.

We need all the domestic energy we can get, folks. Under H.R. 6107, we can produce ANWR's 10.4 billion barrels of American oil and boost efficiency and alternative and renewable energy production at the same time.
Go home this Memorial Day with a REAL Energy Plan in your pocket. Get your representatives to Support or Cosponsor H.R. 6107 today.
We look forward to working with you on this important legislation.
Sincerely,
Don Young, Member of Congress
Roscoe Bartlett, Member of Congress

[Electric_Economy_2025]

Yeah but how long will those Dem's stay in office if they don't act ? We could see a rep pres and rep congress real soon.
I say drill anwar, off the west coast and the remaning GOM and use the money for alternatives and tax breaks for people buying PHEV an EV along with solar.
Also fast track building more nuclear power plants(eg get out all the fucking envor red tape bullshit and build it in my backyard just give me a 50% discount on my power ) They only thing of concern is that it is built to the correct safety standards.

[idiom]

In a year or two a chernobyl event will start to look negotiable.

[sicophiliac]

I have got to say this is the smartest piece of legislation introduced on energy issues I have seen as of late. Fact is if we are ever going to transition to a renewable energy based economy anywhere near like what we have now it will take decades.. peak oil is here and now and we need oil NOW and for sometime in the future. This would effectively kill two birds with one stone, boosting research for alternative fuels while providing a tiny bit of a bridge in the meantime to keep the collapse from getting too bad.

[threadbear]

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.

[Plantagenet]

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.

Private industry cannot "easily" replace oil in the US economy, as you claim. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.
The US needs lots of money to fund an intensive "Manhattan project" to develop viable alternative fuels to replace oil, and the US needs to fund new infrastructure to supplement and replace infrastructure across the US built on the incorrect premise of continuiing cheap gas. This plan provides it.

[joeltrout]

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.

If there was a profit then private industry would be doing. Some of the solar companies are just now becoming profitable after years of none.
People remember all the alternative energy push after the 70s. Then oil burned them and people lost a TON of money because OPEC opened the spigot.
Now many people are gun shy. I heard on CNBC yesterday there are more people shorting solar stocks than those that are long. INvestors are waiting for when solar pulls back and gets destroyed.

[Plantagenet]

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.

If there was a profit then private industry would be doing.

The idea that the federal government shouldn't be involved in funding alternative energy research is profoundly wrong-headed, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the way research works in the US.

The federal government is ALREADY heavily involved in all aspects of basic research in every kind of science in the US. Foreign countries also heavily invest in basic science.
Much basic research will be needed to find a replacement for oil. Of course the government should be involved in such research.

[joeltrout]

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.

If there was a profit then private industry would be doing.

The idea that the federal government shouldn't be involved in funding alternative energy research is profoundly wrong-headed, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the way research works in the US.
The federal government is ALREADY heavily involved in all aspects of basic research in every kind of science in the US. Foreign countries also heavily invest in basic science. Much basic research will be needed to find a replacement for oil. Of course the government should be involved in such research.

I think you misunderstood my stance. I was just responding to threadbear's statement

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it.

I think the govt should be funding this with as much money as possible because private industry isn't able to make a profit off of most of the alternative energy. Therefore private industry will not commit the amount of money we need as a nation to help spur on the development of alternative energy.
I am all for the govt funding alternatives so we can get this show on the road.

[pstarr]

this is a scam to open ANWAR, the last wild place on the northslope and perhaps the United States.
Why tie the funding to ANWAR? How about tieing the funding to George W. Bush's personal estate? Turn his Texas and Paraguay 'ranches' into alternative energy research campuses.
This would be nothing but a giveaway to big oil.
Imagine my surprise.

[joeltrout]

Turn his Texas and Paraguay 'ranches' into alternative energy research campuses.

Its funny you say that. The owner of the oil company my dad and brother work for has been buying ranches in New Mexico just for that. They don't run cattle or farm any of them. They only buy them for potential wind farms or solar arrays.

His family has owned a large oil company in New Mexico since the 70s and you would think he would be the last person to be investing in wind energy and solar energy but he knows that is the way of the future because they have seen their fields decline over the decades and there is no way around that whether you are in SE New Mexico or KSA.

[Specop_007]

In a year or two a chernobyl event will start to look negotiable.

Which is also an impossibility with current reactor design.

[Iaato]

Rep. Don Young (R- AK) and Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md) have just introduced a bill in Congress that would open ANWR and mandate that the federal government use the billions of dollars it would receive in leasing and federal tax receipts from the development of ANWR for alternative energy research. The ANWR money could fund a "Manhattan Project" style alternative energy program. Unfortunately, the Congress is currently controlled by Nancy Pelosi and the dems, so this bill will go nowhere.

This must be the "American way of life is non-negotiable, Let's burn up the entire world to keep things as they are" thread. There is only one word in this post that is germane. That is the word "could."

[Plantagenet]

Let's burn up the entire world to keep things as they are" thread.

Your fantasy about burning up the entire world is silly. The goal of alternative energy research is not to keep "things as they are" but to find alternatives to oil that are ecologically friendly.

[pstarr]

Rep. Don Young (R- AK) and Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md) have just introduced a bill in Congress that would open ANWR and mandate that the federal government use the billions of dollars it would receive in leasing and federal tax receipts from the development of ANWR for alternative energy research. The ANWR money could fund a "Manhattan Project" style alternative energy program. Unfortunately, the Congress is currently controlled by Nancy Pelosi and the dems, so this bill will go nowhere.

This must be the "American way of life is non-negotiable, Let's burn up the entire world to keep things as they are" thread. There is only one word in this post that is germane. That is the word "could."

That seems to be PA's MO. And Young is another republican slimeball.

Young scores 0% by NARAL on pro-choice voting record.

Don Young has a dismal record of failing our nation’s troops and veterans

Rated 84% by the Christian Coalition: a pro-family voting record

Why would a smart guy like Bartlett hang around with an idiot like Don Young.

[Iaato]

All of the alternatives will require fossil fuels to maintain and run.
Are you saying we should use up all of our oil now to sustain our current wasteful way of life? Drilling Arctic Refuge would certainly benefit Fairbanks, wouldn't it.
Doesn't it make more sense to let peak oil reduce the waste of energy and help us adapt to a lower energy life, and save our oil in this country for our kids and grandkids to make their way of life a little less hard-scrabble?

[Peleg]

Why do you need Anwr to do what private industry could easily do, without it. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.

Private industry cannot "easily" replace oil in the US economy, as you claim. What a disingenuous piece of nonsense that is.
The US needs lots of money to fund an intensive "Manhattan project" to develop viable alternative fuels to replace oil, and the US needs to fund new infrastructure to supplement and replace infrastructure across the US built on the incorrect premise of continuiing cheap gas. This plan provides it.

This is Roscoe selling us all down the river. That's fine, Hirsch and Simmons still have their integrity.
As if there is any guarantee either that the money will actually go where they say it will, or that a few billion dollars will solve the technical problems. When the Manhattan Project started they knew the nergy was there they just needed to build the mechanism for releasing it.
I am deeply disappointed in Roscoe for even proposing this. It's complete nonsense. Many will fall and many will rise, peak oil cannot be avoided. The United States will fall within two decades never to rise again as it is currently known.