[Gardening] Winter Gardens

[Heineken]

Forget holding a regular job and growing all or even a good portion of your food. Impossible.

Well, I have a 40hr/wk job, (+ca.10 hrs/wk commuting time), and I can grow some of my own food.

I've already posted some evidence of that in a few other threads...

Some. But not most. Big difference.

[jdumars]

Rocc, I so feel for you! Last year here in Tennessee was an absolute disaster. There was a freakishly-late, several-day hard freeze that killed everything we planted, even though it was covered. This was followed by the worst drought anyone could remember all year long. We tried to do straw bale gardening which is drought-tolerant, but stuff just died. We had to use city water on things, and I really believe the chemicals just screw the plants up. The end result was a lot of rotten, stunted fruits.

This year, we're farming about 4 acres of river bottom land with decent clay/rock soil that retains moisture well. There's also adequate river water and a pond to draw from for watering. It's already been a tough year. I'm not sure if anyone here has ever weeded 4 acres completely by hand, but it is grueling!! The flea beetles are already gnawing away at our eggplants, the aphids are setting small villages in the peas, the deer are spending a lot of time checking out (but not yet eating) our broc/cabbage/cauliflower, and so on. There's also a surplus of cottonmouths around and they are fast as hell!

Jack's words always ring true no matter how stainless surgical steel they are. I've really come to the conclusion that you can do all the preparation you want -- it's only one catastrophe away from being useless. What isn't useless is being flexible, improvisatory and good with at least one tool/weapon.

[PeakOiler]

Some. But not most. Big difference.

Good point. My current goal is only 5%. (And that goal must increase.) And you're right in saying "a good portion of your food." I would have to quit my job in order to work more on the homestead to significantly increase my food production.

[Evltre]

We are heading into winter now down here - so what's planted in our garden at the moment is pretty hardy... but we had a similar experience mid spring - a really unseasonal heavy frost which wiped out all of my zucchini, pumpkin, squash and cucumber plants, not to mention cause some serious pain to my potatoes. We then had terrible hail storm about 2 weeks later that finished off everything the frost didn't kill.

I had to start again from seed, putting my planting behind by weeks, and therefore seriously reducing my harvest amounts. We managed to eat lots of yummy fresh stuff over summer and into autumn, but we didn't have spare to put away for winter / next year. And then in late summer the chickens broke in and ATE ALL my autumn plantings ARrrrggghhhh

So this year we'll be starting all our seedlings in triplicate and keeping spares growing in the garage or something - at least then I don't have to wait for new seeds to germinate!

[Specop_007]

We eat the stuff we grew and stored last year and the year before?

Sure. Home canning...on a wood stove...in summer...and you gotta do it, lest the crop fail....

Please forgive me, but that does not sound like fun.

You would prefer the other option I take it??

But dont sweat it. After the past year or so I've had an interesting conclusion.

Peak Oil as per definition will most likely never happen. Our fears os massive collapse of society wont happen either.
It aint gonna be all milk and honey, but we arent going to end up HAVING to grow a garden to eat. Rest well, we'll be fine.

[Jack]

You would prefer the other option I take it??

Why, yes. Yes I would.

Note that you did not specify what that "other option" was. I have applied my own *ahem* perspective.

[Specop_007]

You would prefer the other option I take it??

Why, yes. Yes I would.

Note that you did not specify what that "other option" was. I have applied my own *ahem* perspective.

Ahhh, but you do know what the other option is. Pretending otherwise doesnt change it.

[Evltre]

but we arent going to end up HAVING to grow a garden to eat.

We already *have* to grow a garden - not to "survive" (we wouldn't starve if we didn't have one) but to eat WELL we need it. Not because good fresh food isn't available - but because it's starting to get really expensive. I'd rather put our money to other uses right now than spend it on something I can grow myself with a bit of time, effort - and it appears... luck!

Pop's you LUCKY man - I would love a summer kitchen. Although the backyard does just fine in the meantime

[Jack]

Ahhh, but you do know what the other option is. Pretending otherwise doesnt change it.

Yes, I do. You do too. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such a nice collection.

[Specop_007]

Ahhh, but you do know what the other option is. Pretending otherwise doesnt change it.

Yes, I do. You do too. Otherwise, you wouldn't have such a nice collection.

Thats to fend off those who think like that.

I'll answer for my actions in the next life, so I choose my course of action wisely in this.

[Heineken]

Rocc, I so feel for you! Last year here in Tennessee was an absolute disaster. There was a freakishly-late, several-day hard freeze that killed everything we planted, even though it was covered. This was followed by the worst drought anyone could remember all year long. We tried to do straw bale gardening which is drought-tolerant, but stuff just died. We had to use city water on things, and I really believe the chemicals just screw the plants up. The end result was a lot of rotten, stunted fruits.

This year, we're farming about 4 acres of river bottom land with decent clay/rock soil that retains moisture well. There's also adequate river water and a pond to draw from for watering. It's already been a tough year. I'm not sure if anyone here has ever weeded 4 acres completely by hand, but it is grueling!! The flea beetles are already gnawing away at our eggplants, the aphids are setting small villages in the peas, the deer are spending a lot of time checking out (but not yet eating) our broc/cabbage/cauliflower, and so on. There's also a surplus of cottonmouths around and they are fast as hell!

Jack's words always ring true no matter how stainless surgical steel they are. I've really come to the conclusion that you can do all the preparation you want -- it's only one catastrophe away from being useless. What isn't useless is being flexible, improvisatory and good with at least one tool/weapon.

I know the frost of which you speak. It affected us too, badly. And then the drought, which finally ended only this month! What a nightmare.

Growing food isn't a walk in the park. It's an oft-bitter struggle, and often you have little or nothing to show for all your work. Learning this fact was one of the great disappointments of my life.

Currently I am hand-weeding 7 acres of pine seedlings, as an alternative to having the Dept. of Forestry use deadly herbicides. There are 3,000 of them, so I do a few hundred at a time, using a scythe-like hoe. I clear a circular area around each seedling. It is a spectacular chore.

[kpeavey]

I feel your pain.

As unfortunate as your crop damage was, it is better to take the hit now. You can replace the lost crops with goods available at low cost. Had you been dependent on the crops, you would be facing a considerable problem.

Every disaster that has hit me over the past few years is helping me prepare for the tough times ahead.

[frankthetank]

Sorry to hear that. This weather can't figure out what it wants to do. Luckily you have plenty of time left and if you've got the water and the soil, you should be able to replant some stuff if need be. You'd be surprised, you might not lose as much as you think.

[Pops]

I really feel for gardeners in the shorter growing season climes, we chose our general area primarily for rainfall and the 200 days growing season - gives a person a chance to stumble a time or two without falling on their face.

JD & Heinie, you two are sure tougher than me! We got that late frost here too, 3 nights below 20*, burned some little garden we had planted and 7ac. of alfalfa to the ground and knocked back the fescue so bad the summer weeds took over the whole country.

Pretty crappy hay last winter.

[Heineken]

I'm probably working myself to death, Pops. Can't stop moving, even though arthritis is creeping into some of my joints. Was hyperactive as a child and am still hyperactive as an adult child.

[strider3700]

Brutal (for here) late winter and snow mid April followed by late summer style heat wave 3 weeks later up here. My spring garden is a disaster with the seedlings barely out of the ground yet at the same time the summer seedlings are moving along just slightly behind them.

This is garden #4 at this place and once again it's not even close to going smooth. I'm diversifying the crops to compensate. The strawberries and cherries look pretty good and the potatoes took off with the recent heat even if the radishes, peas, lettuce and the other spring greens have barely broke the ground.

[Roy]

Cool, wet spring here. I'm not complaining because I'm hoping it will mean a less brutal summer than last year. And last year's April frost killed everything I had set out early except my spuds. So I waited this year till our last frost date to put stuff out. Boy am I glad I did.

The pepper and tomato seedlings I started in early March are all stunted. I started some more in late April and they are all much bigger than the early set.

Eggplants are being attacked by flea beetles, potatoes are looking vigorous, beans are a little on the small side. melons and squash have come up and are growing well.

No Japanese beetles yet. I wonder if they're being delayed by the unseasonably cold weather here? Lows in the 40's at night and such.

At least we're not dependent on these things to feed us. Yet.

My mother grew up extremely poor in the 50's, and told me that her family grew about 80% of their food. Yet they still bought dried beans and corn meal. She won't go near a garden, as her memories consist of grueling summers hoeing, weeding, picking cotton, snapping beans etc etc.

She gives me a devilish grin when I tell her what I'm trying to do.

She thinks its crazy and too much work. Yet I note that she and her siblings all grew up strong, healthy, and not overweight. She says that's true.

And I point out that all that work in the garden builds character... Since that's what she used to tell me as I was working in my dad's garden while the other kids in the neighborhood were all playing.

So Rocc and everybody, remember, it builds character. Or like an ex-Marine friend of mine likes to say: "improvise, adapt, and overcome". I like that.

[gnm]

Sorry to hear it Rocc. I'm still irritated that I haven't been able to put a damn thing out yet. My bedroom is crowded with overgrown seedlings. It snowed 1/2 inch here yesterday - Right after the hail.

-G

[joeltrout]

Sorry to hear it Rocc. I'm still irritated that I haven't been able to put a damn thing out yet. My bedroom is crowded with overgrown seedlings. It snowed 1/2 inch here yesterday - Right after the hail.

-G

Is this weather normal for you guys???

It is crazy to think I started growing my pepper seedlings in February and was able to plant them in the first 2 weeks of March.

Is it possible to grow a years worth of food in such a short amount of time?

joeltrout

[Heineken]

No Japanese beetles yet. I wonder if they're being delayed by the unseasonably cold weather here? Lows in the 40's at night and such.

At least we're not dependent on these things to feed us. Yet.

My mother grew up extremely poor in the 50's, and told me that her family grew about 80% of their food. Yet they still bought dried beans and corn meal. She won't go near a garden, as her memories consist of grueling summers hoeing, weeding, picking cotton, snapping beans etc etc.

She gives me a devilish grin when I tell her what I'm trying to do.

She thinks its crazy and too much work. Yet I note that she and her siblings all grew up strong, healthy, and not overweight. She says that's true.

And I point out that all that work in the garden builds character... Since that's what she used to tell me as I was working in my dad's garden while the other kids in the neighborhood were all playing.

So Rocc and everybody, remember, it builds character. Or like an ex-Marine friend of mine likes to say: "improvise, adapt, and overcome". I like that.

I think we will need more than peppy Marine maxims to save us, Roy.

I'm not a big fan of standard gardening for the reasons your Mom gives, and more. I do a little, though. My main strategy is to plant edible perennials (still plenty of work, mind you). It won't save me, though, either.

It's too early for Japanese beetles, even in more normal weather. First week of June they may start showing their ugly little faces. Right now they're undergoing their underground metamorphosis from grub to beetle.

Might be possible to survive on fried Japanese beetle grubs. Anyone tried one?