THE Retirement Thread (merged)

[eastbay]

Excellent fool yap,

One can also decrease the amount saved if you have a pension or other steady reliable income.

If you and your spouse each have a $10,000/ year pension you can decrease the required total by $500,000. Pensions can disappear too, so don't put all your eggs in this nest.

We all know it won't last forever, so social security income should probably not be included in a long term plan... nice if it's there, but don't plan for it.

Plus, if your house is paid off you can decrease the size of the total sum accordingly.

[FoolYap]

If you and your spouse each have a $10,000/ year pension you can decrease the required total by $500,000. Pensions can disappear too, so don't put all your eggs in this nest.

Yeah, I would be cautious about making plans based on any "money" that wasn't in an account that had only my (or my spouse's <g>) name on it, under my direct control. Many companies have been ditching their pension obligations lately, and barring some backbone and will to make legislative changes from Congress, I expect that trend to continue.

Plus, if your house is paid off you can decrease the size of the total sum accordingly.

Good point. We are planning to have the house paid off before retirement; it's an essential part of our assumptions. (We're actually reducing what we could otherwise be saving now, and throwing it against the mortgage instead. Many people will recommend against that, but I'll sleep better when the only house-related bill I have is the annual real estate tax.)

--Steve

[Ferretlover]

We had a bit of a shock this week at work. It seems we management people will be shifted to a new type of pension, more of an "a la carte" approach, instead of a defined pension from the company, we will (at our option) contribute to a "defined contribution" fund which the company will match, up to 6% of our gross income, and we can choose among various investment options. Our existing entitlements will be frozen where they are as of June 30. The company is concerned that its carrying too much of the pension coverage risk.

With all the talk this raised, among people in the mid 40's to mid 50's, I was surprised to see how many had no familiarity with different savings schemes. And, so many who were carrying substantial debts, beyond home mortgages. I am talking here about people who make from the low $70K to low $90K range per year, and have to understand business measures, etc.

Most came across as if the company pension (along with the government pension) was their only retirement income plan. I just have to wonder, how do people think they'll survive 15 to 30 years of inflation after they retire with no additional savings?

I also see this chart, below, and what surprises me is that the bulk of the baby boom generation should have paid off their mortgages by now, but the average personal equity in real estate is actually shrinking as a proportion. This is a real cause for concern as the population ages.



From Grandfathers Economics

I remember hearing of hard times back on the farm as a kid, about the rough times in the thirties with mortgages and the like and I have shunned owing money. But, I thought all baby boomers went though that same litany from our parents and grandparents.

[Plantagenet]

IMHO, the Baby Boomers are screwed.

--Companies are cutting retirement benefits.
--The social security "trust fund' is a farce.
--The US is flooded with illegal aliens, producing surplus of workers that drive salaries down.
--Corporations are off-shoring to cheaper labor pools.
--Bubbles in stocks and real estate have popped
--Costs for fuel, food, taxes are going up rapidly
--US politicans of both parties have been dishonest about social security, peak oil, the costs of globalization, etc. etc.

And, worst of all, US workers seem to no longer be willing to go on strike or fight for their wages and benefits. People just accept all the cuts and losses.

[Ferretlover]

This is a real cause for concern as the population ages.

Or, not so big a concern as the population Doesn't age due to starvation, disease, and war.

[peaker_2005]

We had a bit of a shock this week at work. It seems we management people will be shifted to a new type of pension, more of an "a la carte" approach, instead of a defined pension from the company, we will (at our option) contribute to a "defined contribution" fund which the company will match, up to 6% of our gross income, and we can choose among various investment options. Our existing entitlements will be frozen where they are as of June 30. The company is concerned that its carrying too much of the pension coverage risk.

With all the talk this raised, among people in the mid 40's to mid 50's, I was surprised to see how many had no familiarity with different savings schemes. And, so many who were carrying substantial debts, beyond home mortgages. I am talking here about people who make from the low $70K to low $90K range per year, and have to understand business measures, etc.

Most came across as if the company pension (along with the government pension) was their only retirement income plan. I just have to wonder, how do people think they'll survive 15 to 30 years of inflation after they retire with no additional savings?

I also see this chart, below, and what surprises me is that the bulk of the baby boom generation should have paid off their mortgages by now, but the average personal equity in real estate is actually shrinking as a proportion. This is a real cause for concern as the population ages.



From Grandfathers Economics

I remember hearing of hard times back on the farm as a kid, about the rough times in the thirties with mortgages and the like and I have shunned owing money. But, I thought all baby boomers went though that same litany from our parents and grandparents.

Acutally that sounds a little like how super works here. It works fine as long as the market isn't crashing

[Ainan]

You think baby boomers have it bad? I'm 21, i have half a century till i 'should' retire. Will pensions even exist then? Will the government even exist? More importantly, will i even be alive to need it? What should young people like me do?

My first though is to have kids to support me and a cache of physical gold. Any baby boomers with 200 gold coins in a hidden floor safe will do better than the others with their corporate savings scheme which could be worthless at any moment.

[Plantagenet]

Don't worry. Obama has announced a plan to raise social security taxes again and save the SS program.

His plan is similar to the past plans.....first you extend the retirement age and reduce the benefits and raise taxes even higher so you are taking in more then the program pays out.....then you promise to put the money into a "trust fund" and promise the program will now be solvent forever.

[Ferretlover]

You think baby boomers have it bad? I'm 21, i have half a century till i 'should' retire. Will pensions even exist then? Will the government even exist? More importantly, will i even be alive to need it? What should young people like me do?

You should be fine. There will be lots less people, so there will be lots more (worthless) money available for your old age!

[Tyler_JC]

There are plenty of good places to invest your money in order to provide for retirement.

Social Security isn't one of them.

I'm basing my retirement off of the idea that I will never get a penny in social security.

So are my parents and they are in their early 50s.

[jasonraymondson]

DELETED...

[bodigami]

You think baby boomers have it bad? I'm 21, i have half a century till i 'should' retire. Will pensions even exist then? Will the government even exist? More importantly, will i even be alive to need it? What should young people like me do?

My first though is to have kids to support me and a cache of physical gold. Any baby boomers with 200 gold coins in a hidden floor safe will do better than the others with their corporate savings scheme which could be worthless at any moment.

I'm 22, hmm... if I have to give only 1 advice to fellow humans in my same generation it is: prepare to die. Seriously that gives a huge amount of freedom of mind, happyness and serenity. Meditation is the tool I've found more effective to prepare to die (it also works for other mental enhancements).

I thought that overpopulation was something that all on this forum have at least thought about... For reproduction basically ask yourself:
will you feel good having offspring before TFSHTF and not know what kind of pain will they live? Isn't reproducing while leaving a crap legacy (what older generations did to our generation!) something to feel bad about?

No, I prefer to survive TFSHTF and then reproduce. But I'm already prepared to die so I'm fine with both outcomes. Hey, chances are that surviving girls have some adaptation, and be more fuckable on avarage (I've compassion towards all humans but am also honest about survivors... people with obvious genetic diseases are much less fuckable... in a "perfect" society they should live but NOT reproduce)! But this strategy works better for boys, because our fertility doesn't deteriorate so drastically after a relative young age.

[hubbertspeak7777777]

You think baby boomers have it bad? I'm 21, i have half a century till i 'should' retire. Will pensions even exist then? Will the government even exist? More importantly, will i even be alive to need it? What should young people like me do?

My first though is to have kids to support me and a cache of physical gold. Any baby boomers with 200 gold coins in a hidden floor safe will do better than the others with their corporate savings scheme which could be worthless at any moment.

I'm 22, hmm... if I have to give only 1 advice to fellow humans in my same generation it is: prepare to die. Seriously that gives a huge amount of freedom of mind, happyness and serenity. Meditation is the tool I've found more effective to prepare to die (it also works for other mental enhancements).

I thought that overpopulation was something that all on this forum have at least thought about... For reproduction basically ask yourself:
will you feel good having offspring before TFSHTF and not know what kind of pain will they live? Isn't reproducing while leaving a crap legacy (what older generations did to our generation!) something to feel bad about?

No, I prefer to survive TFSHTF and then reproduce. But I'm already prepared to die so I'm fine with both outcomes. Hey, chances are that surviving girls have some adaptation, and be more fuckable on avarage (I've compassion towards all humans but am also honest about survivors... people with obvious genetic diseases are much less fuckable... in a "perfect" society they should live but NOT reproduce)! But this strategy works better for boys, because our fertility doesn't deteriorate so drastically after a relative young age.

I've pretty much accepted the fact that I'm gonna die (and probably young) and I'm fine with it. I've accepted the fact that even in the best case scenario, I won't live past my 40's. If some kind of dieoff occurs, I will be one of the first to go.

I've also decided that I'm never gonna have children. There are two reasons for this... 1) the shitty future we face. 2) I'm genetically inferior and I don't want to piss in the gene pool.

Btw, can you recommend any good books on meditation?

[vision-master]

Don't worry. Obama has announced a plan to raise social security taxes again and save the SS program.

His plan is similar to the past plans.....first you extend the retirement age and reduce the benefits and raise taxes even higher so you are taking in more then the program pays out.....then you promise to put the money into a "trust fund" and promise the program will now be solvent forever.

Most current, as in "the Geezer" generation retires depend on SS for OVER HALF of their income as we speak.

Many Boomers will ONLY have SS + a worthless 401k/ 403b plan. Also, many Boomers have large 30 year mortgages and huge credit card debt. AND with a higher age required for full benefits the Boomers will take home even LESS. The Geezers are setting good.

Without SS MOST Boomers and their offspring will be homeless and penniless. That's a FACT! AND if you think you can work till death, dream on. MANY disabiling diseases HAPPEN in you're 50's. IF you think you will beat the odds chances are you [s]won't.[/s] may not.

Example. Couple makes $150,000 year, lives the good life and THEN retires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ON What?

[hubbertspeak7777777]

Don't worry. Obama has announced a plan to raise social security taxes again and save the SS program.

His plan is similar to the past plans.....first you extend the retirement age and reduce the benefits and raise taxes even higher so you are taking in more then the program pays out.....then you promise to put the money into a "trust fund" and promise the program will now be solvent forever.

Most current, as in "the Geezer" generation retires depend on SS for OVER HALF of their income as we speak.

Many Boomers will ONLY have SS + a worthless 401k/ 403b plan. Also, many Boomers have large 30 year mortgages and huge credit card debt. AND with a higher age required for full benefits the Boomers will take home even LESS. The Geezers are setting good.

Without SS MOST Boomers and their offspring will be homeless and penniless. That's a FACT! AND if you think you can work till death, dream on. MANY disabiling diseases HAPPEN in you're 50's. IF you think you will beat the odds chances are you [s]won't.[/s] may not.

Example. Couple makes $150,000 year, lives the good life and THEN retires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ON What?

That's why the average life expectancy is going to plummet. Instead of the average being in the late 70's, it's going to be in the early 60's, maybe even lower. There will also be an increase in the number of suicides of retirement age people.

[bodigami]

(...)
Btw, can you recommend any good books on meditation?

I've read only 1 book on meditation. It is Yoga. But I've read many websites on Buddist meditation and some about other types. Basically I suggest you first learn how to breath. Most people don't even know how to breath, nor basic relaxation of the body... that's because we sometimes think to be better than the rest of nature, but a cat stretching is a better Yogi than avarage civilized people.

The principles to learn how to breath are: filling the lungs. Anapanasati is Buddhist meditation that uses breathing to calm the mind. Yogis also use breathing to focus, fill, harmonize or channel the chakras. Yoga means basically being one with everything, or more specific, being one with the infinite, trascendent, sacred. I use both types of meditation.

There's also jhanna meditation, that is a part of the meditation section of the Noble Eightfold Path, which leads to Nirvana. You should arrive there if you do Anapanasati correctly, but don't force jhannas to happen... just have the intention that they should happen someday. There are 4 jhannas and 4 arupa jhannas, I suggest focusing on the first 4, the later arupa jhannas are surrounded in controversy and secrecy. After 4 years of meditation, and 3 of jhanna meditation, I've just started with the 1st arupa jhanna... and now that I re-read about jhannas... I think I may be confussing the 2nd arupa jhanna with Nirvana (thank you for asking! ...today I was not planning to study Buddhist sutras!).

Access to Insight is a good start:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

more sutras (...that I should re-read):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

about Nirvana:
http://www.fundamentalbuddhism.com/buddhism.htm

[vision-master]

Don't worry. Obama has announced a plan to raise social security taxes again and save the SS program.

His plan is similar to the past plans.....first you extend the retirement age and reduce the benefits and raise taxes even higher so you are taking in more then the program pays out.....then you promise to put the money into a "trust fund" and promise the program will now be solvent forever.

Most current, as in "the Geezer" generation retires depend on SS for OVER HALF of their income as we speak.

Many Boomers will ONLY have SS + a worthless 401k/ 403b plan. Also, many Boomers have large 30 year mortgages and huge credit card debt. AND with a higher age required for full benefits the Boomers will take home even LESS. The Geezers are setting good.

Without SS MOST Boomers and their offspring will be homeless and penniless. That's a FACT! AND if you think you can work till death, dream on. MANY disabiling diseases HAPPEN in you're 50's. IF you think you will beat the odds chances are you [s]won't.[/s] may not.

Example. Couple makes $150,000 year, lives the good life and THEN retires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ON What?

That's why the average life expectancy is going to plummet. Instead of the average being in the late 70's, it's going to be in the early 60's, maybe even lower. There will also be an increase in the number of suicides of retirement age people.

Flew in from Miami Beach BOAC
Didn't get to bed last night
Oh, the way the paper bag was on my knee
Man, I had a dreadful flight
I'm back in the USSR
You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the USSR, yeah

[vision-master]

3M to limit its pension benefits for new hires

3M Co. said Monday that it is altering retiree medical plans and eliminating a defined-benefit pension plan for new hires, a benefit once regarded as one of the most generous in the nation.

In lieu of 3M's traditional pension plan, new hires will receive a new 401(k) savings plan, to which 3M will contribute 3 percent of pay to retirement accounts and a dollar-for-dollar match on employee contributions, up to 6 percent of pay.

http://www.startribune.com/business/17157786.html

[Denny]

I guess its more than just my place of work that is chainging. I think our generation will have to become much more self sufficient. When I started work it was like your employer was taking the place of your family, they looked after your sicknesses, even paid you a good share of yor pay when sick, and took care of you when you got older.

Not so so anymore.

Thing is, I think a lot of employees, maybe the majority of employees, have not adjusted to the new reality.

I also wonder what may happen to many of us if our employeers go bust and have not topped up the pension plan. Even public sector. I read today that the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan, the biggest in the country now recognizes it has a $19 billion deficiency . It was doing so good for so long, but is rapidly being depleted, as the typical teacher now works for 27 years but collects retirement benefits for 32 years. People are living longer. Also, interest rates are too low. They'll be a real rough shape if inflation hikes up, as they pay out inflation indexed pensions. Or, that is their goal, better said.

[vision-master]

I guess its more than just my place of work that is chainging. I think our generation will have to become much more self sufficient. When I started work it was like your employer was taking the place of your family, they looked after your sicknesses, even paid you a good share of yor pay when sick, and took care of you when you got older.

Not so so anymore.

Thing is, I think a lot of employees, maybe the majority of employees, have not adjusted to the new reality.

I also wonder what may happen to many of us if our employeers go bust and have not topped up the pension plan. Even public sector. I read today that the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan, the biggest in the country now recognizes it has a $19 billion deficiency . It was doing so good for so long, but is rapidly being depleted, as the typical teacher now works for 27 years but collects retirement benefits for 32 years. People are living longer. Also, interest rates are too low. They'll be a real rough shape if inflation hikes up, as they pay out inflation indexed pensions. Or, that is their goal, better said.

One Government fund I collect from MAY combine the active & retirement fund togather and cap yearly increases to .025%. I wonder how long before many Government sectors go with 401k style plans like private industry.