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THE Tar Sands Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

THE Tar Sands Thread (merged)

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 10 Mar 2008, 01:10:24

Legal threat to tar sand production FT
In a letter to Robert Gates, US defence secretary, Canada said that it “would not want to see an expansive interpretation” of the Energy Independence and Security Act 2007. A copy of the letter, from Michael Wilson, Canadian ambassador, and copied to Condoleezza Rice, US secretary of state, and Samuel Bodman, US energy secretary, has been obtained by the Financial Times.

Section 526 of the law limits US government procurement of alternative fuels to those from which the lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions are equal to or less than those from conventional fuel from conventional petroleum sources. Canada’s oil sands are considered unconventional fuels, and producing them emits more greenhouse gas than conventional production.
Amy Myers Jaffe, energy expert at Rice University, said cutting out the oil sands as a source of fuel would also limit global supplies further, forcing up the price of oil: “$106 a barrel is going to look cheap.”

The three presidential candidates hoping to replace President George W. Bush are proponents of strong US policy to counter greenhouse gas emissions, which could lead to a narrow interpretation of the law. That could be why Canada wants the law interpreted now.

“The Canadians do, in fact, have something to worry about, particularly from a Democratic administration,” Ms Jaffe said.

Environmentalists say extracting a barrel of crude from oil sands results in five times the amount of greenhouse gas emissions than extracting conventional crude – a figure some energy companies dispute.


Environmentalism is so attractive when it isn't so costly.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Re: Legal threat to tar sand production

Unread postby paimei01 » Mon 10 Mar 2008, 07:01:22

They scared us with this "global warming" to make us consume less oil. Now it's going back at them making them not able to extract from tar sands. :-D

I think the warming is real, but I do not know if it's man made, and I think all the talk about it is because they want the world to reduce oil consumption
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
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Re: Legal threat to tar sand production

Unread postby joeltrout » Mon 10 Mar 2008, 12:58:35

Don't blame global warming on oil production blame cows.

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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby jimmyz » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 21:16:30

where are the before pics?
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 21:21:39

Shows how desperate we are for oil ......... and this is only the beginning.
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Denny » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 21:55:13

Very impressive pictures. It is amazing to see the immensity of it all.
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Pablo2079 » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 22:32:40

There are some before pics later on in the slide show.... or at least pics that show what the boreal forest was probably like before the mining.

This is just the beginning
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby alokin » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 23:11:50

are there serious protests in Canada? Like occupations, huge demonstrations etc?
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby eric_b » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 23:17:07

I could not stop shaking my head, and laughing, as I read that. Completely rape the land to squeeze out a little oil. And it's profitable. Demonstrates the need and demand for oil.

I liked this bit:
But for friendly Canada the tar sands are rapidly becoming an environmental liability as well as an economic hurricane. Described by the United Nations Environment Program as one of the world's top "environmental hot spots," the project will eventually transform a boreal forest the size of Florida into an industrial sacrifice zone complete with lakes full of toxic waste and man-made volcanoes spewing out clouds of greenhouse gases. Are Canadians willing to create an environmental disaster in Alberta in order to provide the U.S. market with some of the most expensive oil in the world? The answer seems to be an emphatic yes.


We're doomed.

Excellent article.
Last edited by eric_b on Mon 16 Jun 2008, 23:32:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby seldom_seen » Mon 16 Jun 2008, 23:30:29

The US is a world leader in destroying their own countryside.

We don't have anything on Canada though. From the Amazon style devastation of British Columbia's old growth forests to shoveling up the province of Alberta and turning it upside down. They win!
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 00:20:08

Try using StumbleUpon and searching for tar sands - or anything else - you'll find some interesting stuff. More varied responses than Googling and parsing results.
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby vetusfirma » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 00:28:01

Now that the Soviet Union is dead, I think Brazil is probably the world leader in destroying their own country. But its so popular to bash America it's understandably that you missed that.
HOLDING THE CENTER
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Homesteader » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 07:06:41

The IOC open pit iron ore mine outside of Labrador City, Labrador at 100 sq. miles is the largest of its kind in North America. Same kind of country as the tar sands. The Taiga is hauntingly beautiful country.
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill

Beliefs are what people fall back on when the facts make them uncomfortable.
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Aaron » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 08:12:12

seldom_seen wrote:The US is a world leader in destroying their own countryside.

We don't have anything on Canada though. From the Amazon style devastation of British Columbia's old growth forests to shoveling up the province of Alberta and turning it upside down. They win!


Just wait till the US begins leveling the Rocky Mountains for Shale.

It's energy negative... it's environmentally devastating & the rate of production is a joke.

And it's a sure bet the US will do it anyway.

Know why?

Despite all the negative implications... it's profitable @ today's oil price.

Talk about Rocky Mountain High... more like Rocky Mountain Wasted out of your freakin' mind.

John Denver wants revenge.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 08:19:51

Mountain top removal coal mining in the US


Image

Kentucky and West Virginia
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 13:23:24

Ludi wrote:Mountain top removal coal mining in the US


Image

Kentucky and West Virginia


It's not so bad, it will regenerate itself. Besides we don't need all that pristine forest land anyways. Sweet black coal is more important! *cough*
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 15:13:46

Google Earth Blog: End Mountain Top Removal Campaign with Google Earth

There's GE projects for tar sands and ANWR as well.

Will be interesting to see what Pres. O-bomb recommends in re: energy independence - he has ties with the coal industry.
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby paimei01 » Tue 17 Jun 2008, 17:44:02

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with people. Given a story to enact that puts them in accord with the world, they will live in accord with the world. But given a story to enact that puts them at odds with the world, as yours does, they will live at odds with the world. Given a story to enact in which they are the lords of the world, they will act like lords of the world. And, given a story to enact in which the world is a foe to be conquered, they will conquer it like a foe, and one day, inevitably, their foe will lie bleeding to death at their feet, as the world is now


From "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby WildRose » Wed 18 Jun 2008, 14:09:29

cbxer55 wrote:Here are some photos for your viewing pleasure!?

http://www.jirirezac.com/stories/oilsands/


That's an excellent collection of pics. They show the devastation quite well.

Stop already! I'll walk!!
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Re: What a disaster the tar-sands are!

Unread postby gampy » Wed 18 Jun 2008, 22:46:41

I hope the good people of North America (or at least this website) understand what our current lifestyles truly cost.

Oh....the awful oil companies.

Don't blame them. Blame yourselves. Blame all of us.

Alberta will resemble Mordor in another 10 years as production and investment ramps up.

Park your cars, don't buy plastic, or nylon clothing. The only way to get people to stop using that awful stuff under the boreal forest is to curb demand.

Anyways, I am sad, and resigned to the fact that Alberta (and the watersheds down river of the area) are going to be sacrificed for a steady supply of motor fuel for North America.

But I am kind of angry that Alberta's government (and hence, her peoples) don't give a shit.

Oh well. Not my neck of the woods. Hopefully, when the whole thing is over, they don't mind trying to eke out a living in a ecological wasteland. Good luck with that.

It's a crime what the Albertan government has allowed to happen. All for a few bucks. I know thjere are a few Albertans who visit this website, and some of them don't give a rat's ass about what's going on, but I would hope that public opinion would start to pressure the government to regulate the industry up there a little better.

Rant over. Enjoy your daily commutes, and 3000 mile tomatoes.
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