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THE Deforestation Thread (merged)

Discussions related to the direct environmental impacts of energy exploitation, development and use including climate change.

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Unread postby kpeavey » Tue 25 Jan 2005, 22:37:34

trees offer a giant amount of production from a small amount of area with minimal labor
1 good apple tree puts out 22 bushels/tree
100 apples/bushel=2200 apples
30'x30'=900 sqft =2.4 apples/sqft (dismal compared to many vegetable crops, but the labor involved is considerably less)
if 10 apples feed 1 person for 1 day, 1 tree=220 people days
109500000000 people days in the US (300M) in a year
497,727,272 trees needed
=1.5 apple trees/person for a 100% apple diet
for a month of apples: 1 tree for 7 people

A mature pecan tree produces some 60#/tree, 50% kernel=30# meat/tree
apples do a whole lot better than pecans, but there is nothing wrong with some variety.

I save my apple seeds and start them in the greenhouse. At 3' tall they make a fine gift.

Most cities have trees all over the place. Parks, roadsides, government grounds for landscaping. Replacing these trees with fruit and nut trees would make too much sense to ever be done, but at least the idea is out there.

Saving the seeds from an apple does not necessarily produce the same type or, especially, quality as the apple they came from, as commercial trees are heavily grafted. Chickens don't care, they'll eat the bejesus out of any apple you toss at them.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
_____

twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
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Unread postby BabyPeanut » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 15:03:53

Another Easter Island.
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Unread postby Aqua » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 18:33:56

Off the topic but I recently noticed in my part of the world some last remaining scraps of native woodland are being build dozed to provide real estate locations in a frenzied housing boom in an area of outstanding natural beauty. These rural bits of land are totally shit for farming hence the reason they survived intact through the generations of peasant farmers, they are now being ravaged for short-term monetary gain by an increasingly insane society. This is wildwood in the least forested country in Europe and its felled without even a mention of environmental impact statement and quite possibly a few Euro in some officials pocket to keep said statement at bay. If it can happen in the EU what’s it like in Africa.

We live in a system where if there’s a buck to be made everything else goes out the window. If something doesn’t give soon then the whole world is going to be an Easter Island for sure. I must be depressed but I find myself increasingly disliking my species more and more each day.
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Unread postby Ludi » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 18:41:58

I find myself increasingly disliking my species more and more each day.


Just remember it isn't our species that's the problem, but our culture (and cultures very much like ours).

Lots of folks lived just fine without ravaging the countryside.
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Unread postby spot5050 » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 19:01:45

eastbay wrote:Since Haiti, I knew it was only a matter of time before an entire once-forested African nation too is denuded of trees.

I'm from the UK. 400 years ago the UK was 98% forest. Now it's less than 1%. But plenty of british eco-warriors go around the world preaching to various countries about not cutting down their own forests!
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Unread postby Mo_Oil_Dave » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 19:32:06

Tomarrow morning, go outside and find a tree with leaves on it. Pluck one and press it in a book. After several years bring it out and show it to your grandkids. Describe a forrest to them. Remember to show them the leaf otherwise they won't believe you. :cry:
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Unread postby Aqua » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 20:34:36

Ludi wrote:
Just remember it isn't our species that's the problem, but our culture (and cultures very much like ours).

Lots of folks lived just fine without ravaging the countryside.


Very well put Ludi and I 100% agree. I am sure you and many on this forum know where I am coming from when I despair of the blatent destruction of nature for short term economic gain. I for one completely welcome the enevitable destruction of this society and its warped values. I've went from optimistic trying to make a difference many years ago to realist preparing for the enevitable destruction of infinite economic growth. If its not oil depletion thats going to kick the economists in the teeth then its going to be mother nature.
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Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 21:29:47

Aqua wrote:I find myself increasingly disliking my species more and more each day.


Might want to check this out then: Species Traitor
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Unread postby arocoun » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 22:52:34

I agree with what Ludi said. It bugs me when people pin this on the species. Our species--admittedly imperfect--still actually existed in harmony with the natural world for a longer time than it has been conquering and destroying it.



Species Traitor is somewhat informative, really interesting, and really thought-provoking. Might be a little radical and chaos-driven for some, though; also, some people don't like Zerzan. I suggest that people visit the site.
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Unread postby Cyrus » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 23:06:43

Mo_Oil_Dave wrote:Tomarrow morning, go outside and find a tree with leaves on it. Pluck one and press it in a book. After several years bring it out and show it to your grandkids. Describe a forrest to them. Remember to show them the leaf otherwise they won't believe you. :cry:


HA! Already done..seriously, i predict in about twenty years a forest will no longer exhist.
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Unread postby Cyrus » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 23:07:13

:-D
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Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 23:08:41

SOSaD wrote:HA! Already done..seriously, i predict in about twenty years a forest will no longer exhist.

:(
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Unread postby Cyrus » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 23:11:38

Yes a scary but true thought....


THIS IS REALLY OFF TOPIC...but...i plan on also showing my grandkids my macintosh classic! Oh the joys of old macs!
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Unread postby arocoun » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 23:44:40

You guys are entirely too unrealistic about the future of the trees. Unless trees themselves become a source of food in one way or another, the human population will contract due to food shortage before it comes to rely on trees as a main source of energy and building materials.
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Unread postby Cyrus » Fri 04 Feb 2005, 23:54:18

The fact of the matter is we are cutting trees down at suck an incredible rate...not to mention them dying on their own due to drought/infestation. One previous poster said the uk had 98% forest and now it consists of less than 1%! Isnt that enough proof. Surely we dont NEED trees its just that they are going so fast.
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Unread postby Cyrus » Sun 06 Feb 2005, 02:48:57

No further comments? This is a bigger issue than we think!
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Unread postby eastbay » Sun 06 Feb 2005, 05:36:52

... let me think about that and get back to you.

Just because UK is mostly denuded of trees and seems to be unaffected doesn't mean the world can do without them. The soon-coming complete destruction of most of the worlds rain forests will have a profound negative impact on everyone from soil erosion to less oxygen produced to less wood for human use.

More after I sleep. We're getting bamboo flooring soon.

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Unread postby DamianB » Sun 06 Feb 2005, 06:27:44

.... 400 years ago the UK was 98% forest. Now it's less than 1%.


Not true. It's approaching 12% and has been rising slowly (from about 10%) since 1919 when the Forestry Commission was established.
"If the complexity of our economies is impossible to sustain [with likely future oil supply], our best hope is to start to dismantle them before they collapse." George Monbiot
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Unread postby Cyrus » Sun 06 Feb 2005, 09:06:05

You also have to factor in the fact that for a number of reasons, trees are dying reaching pandemic proportions. If this has not yet affected you area do a google on "dying trees" and you will see that this is a worldwide thing. So factors include global warming, ozone depletion, drought, betles, etc. Here in the chicagoland area, in most forest preserves, there are more fallen than standing trees!

I am so interested in this subject, i havea google alert for news about dying trees.

Also
We're getting bamboo flooring soon.


Thats pretty cool. :-D
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Trees dying! Noone noticing??

Unread postby Cyrus » Thu 17 Feb 2005, 18:31:01

Ok...i have a google alert for "dying trees" to really keep log on this...when i came across this. http://www.freep.com/features/living/as ... 050216.htm

Why are beetles attacking trees so much...THEY ARE ALREADY WEAK! This is due to drought/global warming/ozone depletion and other unknown causes.

In the 20 counties and several outlying areas under quarantine, the state estimates that 15 million ash trees are dead or dying.


I would say 15 million is not the "natural ebb and flow of nature"!!!!!!
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