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THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

If you are through speculating, this is the place to discuss actions you are taking.

Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 02:16:23

Ayoob wrote:It's a bad idea. Never distill your own alcohol. It's dangerous and illegal!


It is only illegal if you do not have a permit and why would anyone raid your home unless you're selling the stuff or maybe bragging to all of your friends and giving them a tote.

It is only dangerous if you use something like an old car radiator or the like to make it... or, I suppose, if you do not treat combustable materials with the appropriate respect.

It is a great idea if you convert your chainsaw or some other engine to run on the stuff. You can make your own fuel and retain some of the benefits of modern living for a few more years into the decline.
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby burtonridr » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 09:19:45

Hmm I dont know about it being a bad idea :P But it never crossed my mind that it would be illegal to make. You can buy ethanol at home depot which is basically moonshine. I would think you could water that stuff down to a lower percentage and mix drinks with it. Anyone here a chemist or something that would know?

I will have to check my local laws, but if Im simply making it and storing it for personal use I doubt I will have problems with the police.

Its crazy how much you can make for under $10. One of the recipes Im going to try will make 3 liters at around 50% ABV. Not bad :)

I dont see that stuff being anymore dangerous than gasoline or a can of starter fluid, you just have to properly handle it and try not to accidentally drop a match into the batch before you water it down. :lol:
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby WisJim » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 09:57:42

burtonridr wrote:Hmm I dont know about it being a bad idea :P But it never crossed my mind that it would be illegal to make. You can buy ethanol at home depot which is basically moonshine. I would think you could water that stuff down to a lower percentage and mix drinks with it. Anyone here a chemist or something that would know?

I will have to check my local laws, but if Im simply making it and storing it for personal use I doubt I will have problems with the police.


Ethanol that you buy at home depot etc is "denatured", in other words it has poison added to it so that you should't drink it.

And, it isn't the local police you will have trouble with, it is the Feds, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. They don't want anyone distilling alcohol for human consumption without paying taxes on it.

http://www.gin-vodka.com/legal.html
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby burtonridr » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 10:09:43

WisJim wrote:
And, it isn't the local police you will have trouble with, it is the Feds, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. They don't want anyone distilling alcohol for human consumption without paying taxes on it.

http://www.gin-vodka.com/legal.html


I love how they like to screw us some much, gotta tax everything, its like a selfish child, if I cant have it, then neither will you :roll:

Thanks for the link, I will check it out :)

I liked the idea of making it and using it for fuel, apparently its fairly easy to obtain a license and you get a tax credit of about $0.39 per gallon you make. Check out the link

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id10.html
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby katkinkate » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 06:21:08

The dangerous aspect is methanol. A proportion of methanol is made during fermentation. When you distill it it becomes more concentrated and if you drink too much it can kill you. You'll go blind first as a warning when your liver is almost ready to kark it. I've read that when distilling, if you discard the first 10 seconds or so of distillate you will have removed most of the methanol as it has a much lower vapour pressure, ie. it will evaporate before the ethanol. I suppose if you are distilling using a much slower method than boiling you may have to discard a little more than 10 seconds worth.
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby Cloud9 » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 07:26:46

ATF will be very conscerned about your still. My family made a bit of whiskey during the 1930's. Lead in solder is a real concern if you intend to drink your production. The history channel has a series on moon shine that would be very informative. The Fox Fire series covers the process in detail.
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 08:02:16

wisconsin_cur wrote:
Ayoob wrote:It's a bad idea. Never distill your own alcohol. It's dangerous and illegal!


It is only illegal if you do not have a permit and why would anyone raid your home unless you're selling the stuff or maybe bragging to all of your friends and giving them a tote.

It is only dangerous if you use something like an old car radiator or the like to make it... or, I suppose, if you do not treat combustable materials with the appropriate respect.

It is a great idea if you convert your chainsaw or some other engine to run on the stuff. You can make your own fuel and retain some of the benefits of modern living for a few more years into the decline.


Sounds like a neat project.
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby burtonridr » Fri 10 Aug 2007, 09:08:54

katkinkate wrote:The dangerous aspect is methanol. A proportion of methanol is made during fermentation. When you distill it it becomes more concentrated and if you drink too much it can kill you. You'll go blind first as a warning when your liver is almost ready to kark it. I've read that when distilling, if you discard the first 10 seconds or so of distillate you will have removed most of the methanol as it has a much lower vapour pressure, ie. it will evaporate before the ethanol. I suppose if you are distilling using a much slower method than boiling you may have to discard a little more than 10 seconds worth.


You dont need to bring the substance to a boil. When you distill it you are trying to separate the water from the mixture. The way it works it the alcohol has a lower temperature required to make it evaporate. Methanol is has the lowest temperature required. So the first thing to come out of the distiller is methanol. Then as the temp rises it starts to evaporate the other alcohol chemicals.

Because it is illegal, I wont be pursuing this any further :( Still it is an interesting process.
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby argyle » Mon 25 May 2009, 04:22:46

burtonridr wrote:
katkinkate wrote:The dangerous aspect is methanol. A proportion of methanol is made during fermentation. When you distill it it becomes more concentrated and if you drink too much it can kill you. You'll go blind first as a warning when your liver is almost ready to kark it. I've read that when distilling, if you discard the first 10 seconds or so of distillate you will have removed most of the methanol as it has a much lower vapour pressure, ie. it will evaporate before the ethanol. I suppose if you are distilling using a much slower method than boiling you may have to discard a little more than 10 seconds worth.


You dont need to bring the substance to a boil. When you distill it you are trying to separate the water from the mixture. The way it works it the alcohol has a lower temperature required to make it evaporate. Methanol is has the lowest temperature required. So the first thing to come out of the distiller is methanol. Then as the temp rises it starts to evaporate the other alcohol chemicals.

Because it is illegal, I wont be pursuing this any further :( Still it is an interesting process.



Under european law it's no longer illegal to do this, as long as it's for your own consumption. I believe this is a "by-product" to allow ppl to make their own wine, cheese, etc
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Re: Easy Alcohol

Unread postby alokin » Tue 26 May 2009, 05:01:58

I would brew my own beer or wine but not distill. Besides being illegal it is as well dangerous having high % alcohol at home. If it is tasty (like a good grappa) you might get used drinking too much. The advantage of brewing your own beer and wine is that you can make something with less alcohol.
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US Gunverment Poisoned Alcohol During Prohibition

Unread postby mattduke » Tue 23 Feb 2010, 20:20:22

Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people.


During Prohibition, however, an official sense of higher purpose kept the poisoning program in place. As the Chicago Tribune editorialized in 1927: "Normally, no American government would engage in such business. … It is only in the curious fanaticism of Prohibition that any means, however barbarous, are considered justified." Others, however, accused lawmakers opposed to the poisoning plan of being in cahoots with criminals and argued that bootleggers and their law-breaking alcoholic customers deserved no sympathy. "Must Uncle Sam guarantee safety first for souses?" asked Nebraska's Omaha Bee.


By mid-1927, the new denaturing formulas included some notable poisons—kerosene and brucine (a plant alkaloid closely related to strychnine), gasoline, benzene, cadmium, iodine, zinc, mercury salts, nicotine, ether, formaldehyde, chloroform, camphor, carbolic acid, quinine, and acetone. The Treasury Department also demanded more methyl alcohol be added—up to 10 percent of total product. It was the last that proved most deadly.


The results were immediate, starting with that horrific holiday body count in the closing days of 1926. Public health officials responded with shock. "The government knows it is not stopping drinking by putting poison in alcohol," New York City medical examiner Charles Norris said at a hastily organized press conference. "[Y]et it continues its poisoning processes, heedless of the fact that people determined to drink are daily absorbing that poison. Knowing this to be true, the United States government must be charged with the moral responsibility for the deaths that poisoned liquor causes, although it cannot be held legally responsible."

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Re: US Gunverment Poisoned Alcohol During Prohibition

Unread postby Cloud9 » Tue 23 Feb 2010, 21:04:39

Ah the things that can be done when one has the moral high ground. 8O
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby PeakOiler » Mon 19 Jul 2010, 18:43:13

Edit: Deleted--double post...
Last edited by PeakOiler on Mon 19 Jul 2010, 19:06:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby PeakOiler » Mon 19 Jul 2010, 18:45:22

I mentioned in the Citrus and Peach Trees thread that I would try to make some peach wine from this year's bumper harvest, but since that was getting a little off-topic in that thread, I decided to bump this thread.

Shown below is the peach slurry (on Saturday) in the primary fermenter:

Image

The processed (sliced, pitted, mostly skinned) peaches were crushed in a nylon filter bag which made it much easier to squeeze out the peach juice. I left the nylon bag in the primary fermenter partially floating as seen in the image above.

I added the yeast yesterday and today the bubbler (air-lock) was steadily burping. :)

Image
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby PeakOiler » Wed 21 Jul 2010, 19:05:50

I have a question for any more-experienced homegrown wine/beer makers (WisJim, Pops, pstarr, et al). Is it OK to add more fresh water to the primary fermenter while the air-lock is still bubbling? Seems to me that not only is CO2 released during the fermentation process, but water vapor as well. Doesn't one need to make up for that lost volume?
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Re:

Unread postby PeakOiler » Wed 21 Jul 2010, 20:06:41

Pops wrote:This place had 4 grape vines of unknown variety, which I took cuttings from early this year, and I now have about 30 new plants. They old vines seem to be doing well without any chemicals and are putting on a good amount of fruit – if they turn out to be tasty I’ll probably take some more cuttings next spring. <snip>


Care to show us an update and pics of the cuttings you started?
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby PeakOiler » Sat 24 Jul 2010, 14:40:02

Today (or tomorrow) I plan on racking the peach wine slurry in the primary fermenter to the glass carboy. The air-lock on the primary fermenter is still bubbling, six days after adding the yeast. Should I wait until the bubbler stops burping? This experiment is a great learning experience.
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby PeakOiler » Sun 25 Jul 2010, 12:53:01

Today I racked the peach wine from the primary fermenter to the 23-liter glass carboy:

Image

Here is a link to a YouTube video on racking wine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zvxxEaN0OI

Now I wish I had made a quadruple batch. I had enough peaches, that's for sure...
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby PeakOiler » Fri 30 Jul 2010, 19:02:53

Five days later from the previous post, the air-lock bubbler on top of the carboy has really slowed down and the mixture is getting clearer. The color looks peachy. :)

After talking to my coworker who's done this before, he does recommend that I get a second glass carboy for the next racking in a few more weeks. They are more airtight than the primary fermenters, plus one can see exactly how deep the siphon tube should be to minimize transferring the lees (sediment) into the next container.
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Re: THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

Unread postby americandream » Fri 30 Jul 2010, 22:50:02

No reason why you cannot but you'ld have to be scrupulous about cleanliness whilst prising the bung off or risk losing your batch (less of a problem with beer I found which I brewed in a large bin and was less fastidious about. Used to even drink the stuff before bottling when I had a few thirsty mates over. The flatulence was fun. :o )

PeakOiler wrote:I have a question for any more-experienced homegrown wine/beer makers (WisJim, Pops, pstarr, et al). Is it OK to add more fresh water to the primary fermenter while the air-lock is still bubbling? Seems to me that not only is CO2 released during the fermentation process, but water vapor as well. Doesn't one need to make up for that lost volume?
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