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[Opinion] 5 Rules for PO Prep.

If you are through speculating, this is the place to discuss actions you are taking.

Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Heineken » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 08:34:36

hunter wrote:For Number 2 the plan is to go back to the country and build a small home, something that can't be seen fromt he road ways. hiding is of utmost importance here.


Hiding can work against you as easily as for you. I have thought long and hard on this.

First of all, there is no "hiding." Not truly.

Second, if you're "hidden," it's easier for others to kill you and take what you have. They can do it at their leisure, in fact, with less fear of outside interference.

I live "hidden" because I prefer privacy and the peace of nature, not because I think it will help me survive.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Don35 » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 09:08:50

My 5. (Not too original)

1. No debt
2. LEARN as much as possible and practice it as much as possible. I.e. collect useful knowledge/books for post PO and the generations that will follow me.
3. Collect useful stuff, hand tools, grain mill, weapons, etc.
4. Plant like crazy. trees, scrubs, anything that will feed me later w/ zero effort on my part. And yes still garden.
5.Listen to you guys :-D

Thanks for the thread Pops. You are my hero!
Heineken, davep. Great comments. We will not be around for long. And davep, life is Dukkha. Life is suffering/pervasive unsatisfactoriness/imperfection. We are about to see a lot of that!
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby oowolf » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 17:09:05

I'm with Heinie. Remember life is short. No one can prepare for all possibilities. Don't forget to enjoy the life you have today. (perhaps easier to do when you've already done all you can)
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Pops » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 19:57:17

Crap, this is the best thread I have started in a while!

Come on – let’s hear something different – maybe something from the folks in town or...

We know you are out there so pipe up; you must have a plan if you are reading here.

You might save somebody's kids, maybe talking about it could save yours.
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
--Dwight Eisenhower

We don't see things like they are, we see them as we are.
--Anais Nin
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby doomer57 » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 20:58:53

As a long time lurker, I felt a need to add one item to this thread (I know, I know, five are required so maybe i'll add to #1. Anyhow, all of this talk about being on the move means you aren't where you should be. If things get really bad don't you think that being out on the road, passing through towns with utter strangers, doesn't put you at risk? You need to hunker down, and find someplace where you can live out hard times on a permanent basis.

Anyhow, #1 in preparedness should be (but is more difficult than it sounds - as I haven't certainly done this) is to organize a group for self protection. In some cases, where the neighborhood is somewhat defined and you have good people in it, the best solution would be to organize the neighborhood into some type of self-policing and self-protecting area.
I think this may be possible where I live, but I think most of my neighbors would look at me ahead of time as a 'nut' (my wife certainly believes so... But the time will come.

#2 Think out your responses to those who are likely to be in need. You can't just shoot everyone who comes into the neighborhood looking for food. You want to sleep at night and you don't want to end up in jail. But I think we all see the need for some type of defence against those who will take whatever they feel need to survive, at our loss, of course. The difficulty will be learning what to do when. Personally I don't want to be a hardass but I would perhaps hire a hardadd to protect a community I was living in.

#3 The need for organizing in communities will be important. A lot of how things go down will depend on leadership at every level. If its evey man for himself (sorry non-men) then it will be lot worse than if there is some sense of community, shared sacrifice - and strong law and order, however much I dislike the idea and the term.
In any case, communities and nations may fare very differently depending on how their leadership responds to the end of oil and gas.

#4 Figure out a way to generate and utilize electricity on a small (and possibly really small scale). The most critical usage for electricity is, very simply, refrigeration. Forgot air conditioning, forgot heating (the grid will go down once everyone turns on electric heaters when they don't have anything else). It should be possible to generate and store electrical power for critical usages and we need to figure out how to do this economically and on a wide scale.

#5 I like Heineken's idea of also preparing to go gracefully. We should all try to live for as long as possible, but not so long that we end up lying in a bed, incontinent and worse, at the end of our life. I like the eskimo solution: a long walk on an ice flow on the cold night. We'll see... every person and evey living thing clings to life with absolute desperation.

BONUS ITEM! BONUS ITEM! #6 (sic)

#6 Getting out of debt is great, but in some cases, if you have enough financial assets to cover your debts, you may be able to make enough investments to make your life a bit more comfortable. But, please realize: most wall street advice is worthless, most (but not all ) financial advisors advice may not make be worth what you will pay for it, most of the 'can't miss stocks' you get in mailers are a waste of money. There are really good, honest financial newswriters/advisors out there (Doug Casey, James Dines, The Stansberry group from Agora, etc. but you have to read a bit to get the right strategy and to minimize your risk.

My two cents....
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Pops » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 21:24:09

Thanks Shanny and 57…

I think we all would love to hear from some more lurkers….

You folks have been thinking; share your stuff


Come on…… it doesn’t hurt.
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Laurasia » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 21:37:28

My five rules:

1) Try to stay informed of world & local events - this could act as an early warning system if something big & bad were to happen.

2) Whatever our point of view about how the crash will take place, and whatever form our plans take, try to accomplish at least one thing each week towards those plans.

3) Depending on what is currently happening (refer to #1), do not allow yourself to panic, OR to become complacent.

4) Learn quickly when to shut up talking about Peak Oil, Climate Change, etc.

Regards,

L.
5) Keep coming back regularly to post or lurk on that meeting of the minds known as Peakoil.com - to restore your belief in your own sanity.
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby TheTurtle » Thu 14 Jun 2007, 22:08:00

doomer57 wrote: Anyhow, all of this talk about being on the move means you aren't where you should be. If things get really bad don't you think that being out on the road, passing through towns with utter strangers, doesn't put you at risk? You need to hunker down, and find someplace where you can live out hard times on a permanent basis.


I'm not sure if it falls within Pops' rules to discuss others lists, but since this wasn't actually in your top 5 list, I'll go ahead and discuss it. :-D

Mobility wasn't explicitly among my top 5 list. But I did stress the need to remain mentally flexible and part of that is being able to recognize when the time has come to cut your losses, bail out of your permanent base and hit the road. Yes, it's a good idea to prepare a home base beforehand, and hopefully you will live out a nice, tranquil life there. But you must be willing to leave it all behind if the situation changes.

The difference between being a nomad transitioning from home base to fallback site B and a refugee who is fleeing from his home in shock and panic with no particular destination is that the first person has done a bit of preplanning and is open to being mobile if the need arises. Hopefully it won't, but you never know ...
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Narz » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 00:46:53

Great thread. Read the whole thing (and hope to read much more). It's late and I'm tired but I will come back and post my ideas soon.
“Seek simplicity but distrust it”
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 01:07:23

Heineken wrote:
Pops wrote:
Heineken wrote:But the most important rule is:


Heine, I asked for 5 rules…


I think all the core "rules" have already been mentioned, Pops. They're all good.

All mentioned except mine. My "prepare for death" rule helps keep the struggle in perspective.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm of an age now when a part of me---a small part, but not an insignificant part---starts to tire of the pathetic squirming for more time. Making peace with the inevitable, and doing some planning for it, also begins to be important.

Death is going to come back in a big way. We will live more like 19th century people, and we will die more like them too, no matter how cleverly we prepare to survive.

bshirt---thanks for your kind remarks.


I'll be ready to move towards "preparing for death" once my kids are out and on their own. Until then I will amputate my own leg if I need to in order to be around for them and get them out of the nest. In theory I can accept the need for preparation and perhaps I am prepared in my own way but practically I will not go quietly into the night until I have exhausted every other possibility. I will not entertain the possibilty of failure until I have already failed... and maybe not even then.
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Elan_Rasa » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 01:27:31

Thanks for starting such a great thread Pops.

We are all about to be given the biggest exam of our lives and the only score you will receive is a Pass or Fail.

Most of the rules I've seen center on physical survival and a Pass/Fail means whether you or your offspring will be in a position to survive. I think this test is more than just about physical survival, I think it will test our spiritual survival as well. Having said that, here are my 5 rules:

1-- Learn as much as I can in the time that I have
2-- Help others as best as I can
3-- Teach others as best as I can
4-- Make preparations for physical survival
5-- Remember that this is just a test and life will go on, but your choices will follow you

Best -- ER
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Heineken » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 08:34:20

wisconsin_cur wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Pops wrote:
Heineken wrote:But the most important rule is:


Heine, I asked for 5 rules…


I think all the core "rules" have already been mentioned, Pops. They're all good.

All mentioned except mine. My "prepare for death" rule helps keep the struggle in perspective.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm of an age now when a part of me---a small part, but not an insignificant part---starts to tire of the pathetic squirming for more time. Making peace with the inevitable, and doing some planning for it, also begins to be important.

Death is going to come back in a big way. We will live more like 19th century people, and we will die more like them too, no matter how cleverly we prepare to survive.

bshirt---thanks for your kind remarks.


I'll be ready to move towards "preparing for death" once my kids are out and on their own. Until then I will amputate my own leg if I need to in order to be around for them and get them out of the nest. In theory I can accept the need for preparation and perhaps I am prepared in my own way but practically I will not go quietly into the night until I have exhausted every other possibility. I will not entertain the possibilty of failure until I have already failed... and maybe not even then.


That's what I meant. Except, once every possibility has been exhausted, I'm ready to go and will help the matter along so as to spare my loved ones, and my dignity, from unnecessary burdens.

The Eskimos and the American Indians and other native groups are living the way we aspire to, and they have a way of dealing with "the end" that reflects their wisdom and knowledge. Trying to carry on beyond the end is a symptom of our profoundly sick culture.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Grifter » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 09:04:27

1. Keep my mouth shut about peak oil
2. Pretend to believe in a deity
3. Pretend to believe in business as usual
4. Exercise
5. Stay away from debt
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Heineken » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 09:13:30

1. Stockpile a lot of insect repellant.
2. Stockpile a lot of insect repellant.
3. Stockpile a lot of insect repellant.
4. Stockpile a lot of insect repellant.
5. Stockpile a lot of insect repellant.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 09:40:36

1. Establish effective and efficient community communication and decision making processes.

2. Eliminate dependency on personal travel for any and all necessities for everyone in your community

3. Identify, secure and maintain reliable sources of food and water for your community

4. Establish and/or strengthen local institutions and functions that support social interaction, group cohesion, common defense, etc.

5. Stay happy and keep your sense of humor. You only live once (for sure anyway).
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby steam_cannon » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 12:31:44

Grifter wrote:1. Keep my mouth shut about peak oil
2. Pretend to believe in a deity
3. Pretend to believe in business as usual
4. Exercise
5. Stay away from debt
Some pretty good ideas, especially 2... My experience in the south, if you didn't have a cross or something on your desk people will start worrying you're not part of "the team". And you can lose your job real quick, its just human nature. But myself, I was a team player, I made ceramic crosses for everyone! And I'll tell ya, it made them happy. So I guess you could say Jesus was protecting me (or at least I kept myself from being crucified!)... :roll:
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby dissimulo » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 13:59:47

1. Stay flexible. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Prepare to live rural if you can pull off self-sufficiency, but prepare to live urban if you fail at that or if the rural life becomes too dangerous. Have a plan either way, including how you can make the transition.

2. Buy things that will be useful in a low energy future. Don't go crazy - you don't need to spend a lot of money. Don't waste your money on things like generators if you are in it for the long term.

3. Learn things that will be useful in a low energy future. You may run out of money, gold bars, buckets of wheat, and ammo, but you will always be able to get more if you have truly useful skills.

4. Don't spend all your time learning wilderness survival and ninja tracking skills, unless that is how you plan on living for the long term. If that is how you plan on living long term, buy some body armor, because you are probably going to get shot at a lot by people who prepared more realistically.

5. Get out of debt when you can. Don't take on stupid debts. But, don't be afraid to take on reasonable debt if it gets you into a living situation where you can more easily sustain yourself. If you have embraced rule #3, you will probably figure out how to pay your debt and keep your place.

6. Choose to live in a place that has conditions and natural resources that make sustainability possible. If you can live in a place where you control your water supply, so much the better.

7. Do a little something to prepare every day, but don't spend all your time fixated on Peak Oil. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Burn outs will be selling off their vacuum packed grains and cases of ammo for bottom dollar during the divorce settlement.

8. Improve your ability to save by wasting less now. You'll have to waste less in the future, but you won't get as much in return. Turn the heat down in the winter, leave the AC off in the summer, ride a bike once in a while, rework your yard so you can care for it with hand tools.

9. Fund your 401(k), your IRA, your pension, or whatever. Finish school if it is important to you and you are learning valuable skills. Be prepared for the world to go on. Be prepared to be wrong or to be surprised by our ability to conserve and make alternatives work. No matter how certain you are that it is all over, people have been certain before.

10. Keep a positive attitude. Think about how dumb the average person is and that roughly half of all people are dumber than that. If you are on the Internet, reading a message board about Peak Oil, you are probably an intellectual god among the tribe of monkeys that is man kind. You will find a way to get through the hard times, because you are smart and adaptable.
With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby Pops » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 16:32:36

dissimulo wrote:7. ... Burn outs will be selling off their vacuum packed grains and cases of ammo for bottom dollar during the divorce settlement.

:lol: I like it! (even if it was No. 7 :) )
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
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We don't see things like they are, we see them as we are.
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby thuja » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 18:12:58

Pops wrote:Crap, this is the best thread I have started in a while!

Come on – let’s hear something different – maybe something from the folks in town or...

We know you are out there so pipe up; you must have a plan if you are reading here.

You might save somebody's kids, maybe talking about it could save yours.


Ok- here's my top 5...

1- Keep your job.
2- Keep your job.
3- Keep your job
4- keep your job.
5- If you lose your job, find another one...fast.

All the other tips are superfluous. I follow most of them- grow your own food, rainwater catchment, have a gun, reduce debt, spend less, diversify, etc....but they are all worthless if you lose your job. It is the main thing keeping you from losing everything (unless you are filthy rich).

Once you can't afford the bills, the mortgage, etc. you will wind up like the bum on the street, begging for any scrap of food. Your bug out bag will be worthless. Your 3 months supply of canned beans will be next to worthless. Your firearm will mean nothing. You will be at the mercy of those with money, jobs and power.

We spend far too much time on these boards talking about a bug out shelter and not enough time strategizing how to keep income flowing in. Sure, you can become one frugal mofo, and work hard towards self-sustainability, but unless you're rich you need to generate income, and generate enough money to keep up with an inflationary and possibly hyperinflationary environment. So...keep your job survivalists...
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Re: 5 Rules for PO Preperation

Unread postby patrick_b » Fri 15 Jun 2007, 18:52:15

I don't think the number of rules are important, but here are mine.

1) Avoid debts, specially debts on things that loose value due to peak oil. If you have a debt on your car, sell it rapidly while it has value and if you really need a car buy an inexpensive (10 years old), reliable, fuel efficient and manual one. Only small, 4 seaters, fuel efficient cars will have some value after the peak. SUVs and sport cars are expensive and will be the first kind of vehicules to become totally worthless. Manuals need less maintenance, are easier to repair, more fuel efficient and harder to drive (so less likely to be stolen, specially in the US :-)). With the money saved by this car swap, pay back eventual other debts, specially credit cards and high interest debts.

2) Locate in a small city. (3000 to 30000 inhabitants). Big cities will be a nightmare because of blackouts, high crime rate, police/military brutality and massive unemployment. Big cities are also the most likely target of mass bombing and (nuclear) war. I also think that survivalism is a very bad idea and unlikely to be sustainable beyond a few weeks. It's illusory to think that anyone can survive in the long run alone.
In a small city, there is everything that is needed.
2.1) Not far from a food source, since fields are typically outside of small cities.
2.2) Community, possibilities of exchange with neighbours. Someone can make clothes, the other shoes, the other bread, someone can repair a water system...
2.3) In a small city, trade can work directly using tangible goods instead of money, which is very important in case of hyperinflation or deflation. (There may be also a local money system introduced by the local authorities)
2.4) The pressure of the community makes people behave. In big cities, noone knows anyone so people are not afraid to commit crimes and loot (Think about the black outs and lootings in Los Angeles or the recent events in New Orleans). Lone survivalists are likely to be trigger-happy paranoids thus noone will trust them. A small city seem to provide the right compromise and is likely to be a decent place to live with a working local economy even if it's completely cut off the rest of the world.
2.5) In a small city everything and everyone can be reached by walking or biking. A farmer could easily sell his production to people in the city instead of Wal-Mart.
2.6) A small city can provide a place where the economy works based on trust instead of the threat of law enforcement. It means that the economy will continue to work even without attorneys, judges, policemen, foreclosures, etc... Someone who defrauds other people will loose their trust and be excluded... Integration in a small/medium community is the key to survival.

3) A rule that has not been cited in this thread but is very important IMHO during a time of decline: Learn to repair and reuse things and stop throwing away. Most people are not able to repair the simplest appliances and items and throw everything away. People who know how to repair things will be a valuable person and will much more easily get other things in return. The flow of cheap chinese clothes will probably be interrupted rapidly in case of a crisis, typically by protectionist measures, hyperinflation, (trade) wars, etc... Someone able to repair schoes, clothes and eventually make them will be valuable. Someone able to make things work by taking parts of cars will be valuable. Someone able to make bread will be valuable. Someone who knows how to repair bikes will be useful. It doesn't matter what you do but you must know how to work with your hands. Paper-shuffling-office-workers will be the worst off because their skills will be the least useful.

4) Don't trust the govnerment, big corporations or religious leaders - solutions will come from inventive small companies, individuals and communities. In a time of crisis the govnerments, specially imperial ones, tend to be much more brutal in order to ensure its power and income allegedly to ensure order and enforce laws. (But don't count on laws to be enforced) Big companies collude with the govnerment and in time of crisis and become the economic part of the govt. There will be mass layoffs at the worst times, except perhaps in the weaponry industry... So the best is to work in a small local company that makes something useful even if no oil and no electricity is available.

5) Avoid violence. Let the stupid people kill each other and don't take part in it, stay neutral. Don't attach to much importance to your properties. Looting will happen and it's much better to loose objects than your life. What really counts is your skills, specially your skills to do manual work and solution-oriented and practice-oriented intellectual work.

6) When a crisis unfolds, help your neighbours and relatives. Make them small services, help them, repair one of their objects, exchange some things with them. There is nothing better to be integrated in the community and to obtain a job from someone at a time where lots of people could have lost theirs. Show that you're a useful, dependable person and people will come to you. A small service given a the beginning of the crisis can generate very important returns later, not necessarily in the sense of goods, but in the sense of a service, a useful information, etc... Helping others should be seen from an egoist point of view as an investment.
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