Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary

[ironborne]

I was hooking up my Mothers washing machine yesterday and she said not to turn on the hot water because she doesn't use it. I thought that was strange so later I questioned the wife and she said she doesn't wash in anything but cold either. My laundry is always fresh so cold must be the way to go.
On the subject of tough stains such as grease and oil, the laundromats in my area offer potash. It's abrasive but it works.

[gg3]

Loki, that's the same thing I described as the "WonderWash" on the previous page in this topic.

Capacity about 2 - 3 lbs. (e.g. one pair of jeans and a T-shirt, or a few shirts, etc.) You can also use cold or warm water (as well as the hot water procedure they describe in their product info). Turn the crank slowly for 30 - 50 revolutions, 10 in one direction, 10 in the other, etc. until done. You also have to do a couple of rinses.

The same company makes a little counter-top spin dryer for $69.95 which has the same capacity as the WonderWash (a couple of pounds) and is a whole lot better than trying to squeeze out water by hand.

And even folks with conventional washers could find this combination useful for dealing with difficult cases such as a pair of poopy pants or small batches of stuff you want to wash at high temp.

On the other hand go search for "Danby DTT-420," which is what I use. Does a load of 6-1/2 lbs. for 0.07 KWH, which is the same amount of power you'd use leaving a 60-watt bulb on for an hour and 10 minutes; uses half the water of a conventional top-loader. I can explain this one in more detail later if anyone's interested (I have to scoot now, be back tomorrow night).

[Mudpuppy]

Loki,

Well, when I was a student we didn't have a washing machine so my student shared house (three people), used the Wonda wash for about three years (exact same device as pictured, I am from new zelaand so it probably had a different marketing name). The infomercial that convinced me to phone up and get it (yes, yes, .. I know... the innocence of youth) said in just ten turns, a quick rinse and you're done, and your clothes come out better than a washing machine (it had fancy diagrams showing how the spinning motion was physically this and that, and that it was the mechanical motion of it that did wonders).

Well, it was more like 200 turns, two rinses, and I was done. But I have to say it never matched a normal washing machine. So it depends what you are after. If you are living in a rural community and just want relatively clean clothes, and have the time to bother with it, then it is fine (being a male university student from a rural sheep farming valley, time and worrying about clean laundry factored very low on my priority list... unless I thought it would be noticed by a female student).

So, it depends on your lifestyle. If you need white white shirts for work, it is probably not a good idea. And as far as just soaking with detergent in water goes, when I lived in Nepal, water was at a premium in summer, so for laundry I would leave clothes to soak with detergent in the hot summer heat for a day before hand washing. But they still never came out as clean as a machine. The locals (as is common in India as well) would just wash their clothes by beating them over and over again (basically scrunching up the clothes, one piece at a time, with water and a little detergent, and kneeding it like bread dough, and then after that they would swat them like they were a wet towel against the same boulder or rock). They would do that for ages, so I just paid local woman to do that for my clothes and THAT did wash my clothes every bit as good as a washing machine.

But it was bleeding murder on my clothes I can tell you. Any plastic buttons usually came back split. The detergent unfortunately was a huge problem there as the best place to do laundry was in a lake and the detergent from hundreds of women washing all day long caused algae blooms in the lake.

[EndOfGrowth]

An old washing machine engineer once told me that washing powder is mostly bleached sand, which actually causes clothes to fade and wear out prematurely due to all the friction.

For those obsessed with eliminating bacteria..

http://ww2.samsung.co.za/silvernano/sil ... chine.html

[Heineken]

Kudos to all who have stepped forward and decided they will at least reduce the amount of laundry detergent they use.

If you feel you simply must use anoint your clothing with detergent, probably you could get by with a squirt of dishwashing liquid. Soap is basically soap, no matter how it is packaged (and priced).

As others have noted, bleach wears out clothing fast. An even worse effect, for people with a septic system, is that bleach kills the bacteria that help the system work.

[nwildmand]

i also use very little detergent. i guess i always considered the recomended amount wasteful. my bottle of detergent is well over a year old and still 2/3 full.

the only thing im anal about keeping clean is socks and underwear. ill change my socks at lunchtime if i have the chance.

work shirts go for a couple of days before they hit the bin. the same jeans (this may gross some out) will be worn to work for weeks at a time.

as for my good clothes... i figure if i take a shower and put them on for a night on the town how can they get dirty? needless to say they dont get washed much either.


so tell me people in the know... why do some people stink so bad? they wear doederant and shower everyday and have all kinds of soaps and if they dont keep up with it they just reek to high heaven. i myself shower every 3-4 days never use soap (i figure the shampoo running off my head is good enough - ive got a lot of hair) and have never bought doederant in my life. i dont stink. and i know its not me not being able to smell myself. one time this summer i was on the road working and sleeping in my van. i had not showered for 12 days. i got home that night looking like i had been drug through a knothole and went straight to the bar. i asked a couple of my friends who are known for their brutal honesty if i stank. they said they could not smell anything.

so why do some people reek so bad when their hygine is so much better than mine.

i think that all that crap they put on their body is throwing there personal bacteria off balance leaving only super bacteria behind.

any thought on this?

[Heineken]

Off the top of my head . . . the answer lies, wild man, in factors like skin pH and the unique species mix and population of bacteria that one's skin supports. These vary from person to person. Things like diet and exercise also have an impact, I believe. Humans have natural odors that, at least to dogs, are as unique as signatures.

I'm a lot like you. I use shampoo and deodorant rather rarely and take a shower only every third day or so, at least in winter. These habits have cured me of a dry-skin-in-winter problem I used to have.

After a period of labor or exercise, I often just wipe the sweaty areas off with a wet washcloth, then dry thoroughly. Works fine.

No need to absorb any more nasty chemicals than necessary. (This also applies to laundry detergent, which imparts chemicals to our clothes that may be absorbed through the skin.)

Your Darwinian theory about "super bacteria" on the skin of people who constantly wash and constantly apply deodorant and antibacterial soap makes sense.

[Laurasia]

Well, my washing done on "half-rations" has turned out just fine, so it's quarter-rations next washday. Interestingly on the lovely subject of poopy pants, Heineken mentioned boiling or throwing them away. When I was a little girl, baby diapers/nappies were always boiled in a special big pan (used for nothing else) with borax, I think. They were boiled on the stove, and turned with big wooden tongs, lifted out, rinsed and hung out to dry. Any staining still left was usually taken care of by the Sun.

I've also decided to cut down on the amount of dishwashing liquid I use when I wash the dishes - "just enough soap to break the surface tension on the water" as my Dad used to say.

Regards,

L.

[Heineken]

Congrats, Laurasia.

Anyone trying what Laurasia is doing will discover exactly the same thing---less detergent equals the same results.

[Loki]

I've also decided to cut down on the amount of dishwashing liquid I use when I wash the dishes - "just enough soap to break the surface tension on the water" as my Dad used to say.

That's another good subject. I tend to be kind of stingy with laundry soap and body soap, but I do lather on the dishwashing soap. I hand wash all my dishes with a sponge that I keep very soapy. Anyone have a more efficient method? I don't have an automatic dishwasher, so that's not an option. A bottle of dishwashing liquid will last me for quite a few months, but I do often think that I'm using too much.

And thanks to gg3 and Mudpuppy for relaying their experiences with that wonder washer gizmo. So who's right? Should I get it or not? Funds are rather tight with me at the moment, so I don't want to drop $40-$50 on something that won't work very well. Is it durable? Will it last for years or is it typical plastic junk that falls apart with regular use?

[shakespear1]

What ever happened to Borax?

I recall many years ago there was a detergent which had borax in it. There was this commercial of a long wagon team hauling the stuff across some salt flats in the US.

Is borax such good stuff?

[Heineken]

Washing powders may contain less-soluble "fillers" that can plug up your septic system, if you have one. Liquid detergents are better if you feel you must use a detergent.

[threadbear]

Come on, Aaron et al. Be reasonable.

I do manual labor outdoors almost every day, and I swear that the clothes-washing approach I described works adequately.

We are so fixated on getting out every last stain and having "whites" that glow in the dark. We are infected with this fixation by advertising, the office world, and our mothers.

The point is to get clothes clean, not spotless.

The attitude of "out, every damned last spot" is a madness typical of our society, and boy do we pay for it.

for outdoor work, great, but in today's office environment, i think i'd quickly be branded as an undesirable employee with personal hygiene and possible mental issues.

I'd certainly tell them detergent wasn't necessary, right before i was marched to the front entrance by building security.

So let that be your first act of defiance, my good man!! Rage, rage, rage against the washing machine.

[threadbear]

i also use very little detergent. i guess i always considered the recomended amount wasteful. my bottle of detergent is well over a year old and still 2/3 full.

the only thing im anal about keeping clean is socks and underwear. ill change my socks at lunchtime if i have the chance.

work shirts go for a couple of days before they hit the bin. the same jeans (this may gross some out) will be worn to work for weeks at a time.

as for my good clothes... i figure if i take a shower and put them on for a night on the town how can they get dirty? needless to say they dont get washed much either.


so tell me people in the know... why do some people stink so bad? they wear doederant and shower everyday and have all kinds of soaps and if they dont keep up with it they just reek to high heaven. i myself shower every 3-4 days never use soap (i figure the shampoo running off my head is good enough - ive got a lot of hair) and have never bought doederant in my life. i dont stink. and i know its not me not being able to smell myself. one time this summer i was on the road working and sleeping in my van. i had not showered for 12 days. i got home that night looking like i had been drug through a knothole and went straight to the bar. i asked a couple of my friends who are known for their brutal honesty if i stank. they said they could not smell anything.

so why do some people reek so bad when their hygine is so much better than mine.

i think that all that crap they put on their body is throwing there personal bacteria off balance leaving only super bacteria behind.

any thought on this?

You change your socks at lunchtime, if you have the chance. Oh BAby, where you bin all my life?

Apparently, to people from other cultures, who eat little meat, caucasians are real stinkers. I don't get the whole body odour thing. I mean, one day, and for some, one hour of physical exercise, and they are ripe. How is this useful? Is it to scare off predators, or what? It certainly can't be to attract potential mates, or we are seriously messed up, as a species.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

One of the reasons the best chefs are middle aged white men is because they have the taste buds of that demographic and can cater to the taste that group prefers. The rest of the population won't find it as tasty, but who cares, as long as the main people are being taken care of....or at least that is what they are presumed to think.

Body odour would be hard for that demographic to notice as well. Its been well researched that a mans sense of smell/taste diminish dramatically with age. Some of us can tell if someone has eaten hamburger the night before by their body odour. the other side of this equation is filled with people who have exchanged their natural muskiness for the smell of deoderant. Yeuch.

One of the most sexually appealing smells is a clean washed guy that has his own natural musk present. That is why women like slow dancing so much. Clean yes, but naturally clean.

Lots of women are starting to get allergies to the different smells like Brut, and old spice because they are too powerful and overdone.

[Aaron]

One of the reasons the best chefs are middle aged white men is because they have the taste buds of that demographic and can cater to the taste that group prefers. The rest of the population won't find it as tasty, but who cares, as long as the main people are being taken care of....or at least that is what they are presumed to think.

Body odour would be hard for that demographic to notice as well. Its been well researched that a mans sense of smell/taste diminish dramatically with age. Some of us can tell if someone has eaten hamburger the night before by their body odour. the other side of this equation is filled with people who have exchanged their natural muskiness for the smell of deoderant. Yeuch.

One of the most sexually appealing smells is a clean washed guy that has his own natural musk present. That is why women like slow dancing so much. Clean yes, but naturally clean.

Lots of women are starting to get allergies to the different smells like Brut, and old spice because they are too powerful and overdone.

I have had women tell me this same thing.

And I sure can understand it since I'm hard-pressed to think of a better smell than fresh-scrubed girl.

[green_achers]

If you feel you simply must use anoint your clothing with detergent, probably you could get by with a squirt of dishwashing liquid. Soap is basically soap, no matter how it is packaged (and priced).

Actually, while soap and detergent are two similar chemical classes, they are different enough to make a big difference, especially if you are dealing with hard water. Soap + hard water = heavy scale (calcium, mostly) buildup that is bad for clothes, appliances, and your skin. Detergent (the ingredient in laundry and dish "soaps" and in shampoo) does not react with the Ca and Mg in hard water and leave the scale.

[Blake]

I have 1/2 acre for a septic field and it's precious close to my vegatables/orchard. I prefer clean food to clean clothes anyday!

[Chicken_Little]

Lots of women are starting to get allergies to the different smells like Brut, and old spice because they are too powerful and overdone.

Brut and Old Spice? What year are you living in, 1977?

Personally i use Issey Miyake Eau de Toilette.

[gg3]

Re. washing dishes with minimal detergent: DANGER! I lived with a bunch of folks in college and we tried everything for sustainability. We tried cutting back on dish detergent by diluting it substantially. The result of that was repeated cases of diarrhea until we figured out what was going on. Use all the detergent you need for dishes; this means visible suds on the sponge and dishes that are squeaky clean.

In fact a dishwasher is more efficient in terms of water and detergent use, than hand-washing dishes. If you don't use a heated cycle, and use only household hot water, the power consumption level is extraordinarily low also. My countertop unit (also made by Danby) uses 0.02 KWH per load, on a half-cycle (one wash, two rinses) and 2-1/4 gallons of water, with household hot water.

What I also do about dishes is let them soak in graywater between coming off the table and going into the dishwasher. The graywater in turn comes from the laundry rinse cycle. This loosens up all the food residue so that the dishwasher can be used on half-cycle successfully.

Re. body odor: If you try to over-sterilize your skin, you disrupt the normal micro-ecology that favors harmless bacteria, and give harmful and stinky ones an advantage. Normal washing is sufficient for cleanliness without screwing up your skin's ecosystems. Many people can switch over to taking a shower every other day or even every thirds day, with no problem.

Re. the Wonder Wash: apparently, contraptions of that type have a fairly long history. They will work satisfactorily if you know how to use them. They are durable enough for normal use but like anything else, can get broken if you treat them roughly. Keep the load small enough that it has a chance to slosh back and forth as the container is rotated. One pair of jeans plus two shirts, or five or six pairs of underwear, for example. Turn the crank slowly enough that the load gets maximum sloshing action, which will also be the speed at which turning it requires the most effort (energy input to the system).

EndOfGrowth, that guy was pulling your leg. Laundry detergent is not some kind of sand product, go look up the history.

Generally: Basic cleanliness is NOT the place to make radical cuts. Cut driving, heating, TV, movies, etc, but don't cut back on hygiene. That is, don't go letting yourself or your clothes or dishes go getting filthy in order to make a point. You really don't want jock itch, athlete's foot, persistent diarrhea, etc., and you sure as hell don't want to be spreading contagious illness around at a time when medical care may be more and more difficult to obtain.

Basic sanitation is the most significant factor in history in terms of reducing disease and preventable deaths. Soaps and detergents are pre-petroleum-era products that will continue to be made as long as any kind of human civilization is present. You can make prudent reductions in the quantities of detergents used, and the frequency of clothes washing and showers, while still maintaining good cleanliness; but going beyond that point is taking needless risks.