Laundry Detergent: Totally Unnecessary

[gg3]

Most of the following came out of a lengthy eco-industrial research project on appliances & related technical issues:

= Detergent manufacturers want you to use more than actually needed because they want to be damn sure the stuff works on everything. What they value most isn't selling you more detergent than you need, it's having you stick with their brand because it always works for you, and ideally, recommending it to your friends.

= However, an overdose of detergent also means more rinsing is needed to get all of it out of your clothes. Even a slight overdose will double or triple the amount of rinsing needed, i.e. the amount of water and energy used for rinsing.

= Detergent that does not rinse out accumulates in the fabric. Over time this leads to fabrics becoming dulled. The dulling can be reversed simply by washing a few times with no added detergent.

= The point immediately above is also why you can get away with washing without detergent for a while. In effect you're washing with the excess detergent that has already been "stored" in the fabric. This is also the basis on which "eco balls" and suchlike things "work." In fact those things are worthless and basically fraudulent. They do nothing at all (think of "Stone Soup"), the excess detergent in your fabric does the work.

= You can get away with reducing your detergent dosage to a small fraction of what you normally use. In the wash cycle you should see just a very small amount of "suds" on top of the water. In the rinse cycle, the final rinse water should be completely free of suds ("almost" free of suds is OK). For example I've found that 10 to 20 milliliters of liquid detergent is sufficient for a 6 lb. load, which is about 1/8 of the recommended dose. You know all the detergent has been rinsed out when you can't smell the added perfumes on your clothes (i.e. your clothes "smell like plain water" after being taken out of the washer).

= A 30-minute soak in water that is slightly cool to slightly warm and has a small amount of detergent (e.g. 5 milliliters) does a great job of loosening up all types of dirt & soil before the regular wash. This is easier to do with a top loader than a front loader, because you can just stop the cycle after the machine has filled. However with front loaders you can in most cases find a way to customize the programming to provide a "soak and hold" period at the beginning of the first wash cycle. The ideal case is to let the load soak this way, then add another 5 to 10 milliliters of detergent to the same water and agitate for the wash cycle.

= What people did before there were soaps & detergents: Hunter-gatherers in temperate climates with good surface water would just wash their bodies and clothes in the streams, ponds, or rivers as needed. This could be from once a week to once a month or more, without getting too dirty or stinky. Before indoor plumbing, city dwellers in crowded cities, wearing layers of clothes, would bathe a couple of times a year but otherwise get quite filthy and stinky, and need perfumes and suchlike to mask the stink. For example when tobacco was first introduced to Europeans, one of its virtues was that it masked the stink of unwashed humans. For example the "pomade" was an orange or similar fruit cut open and carried about under one's nose to mask the stink of other unwashed humans in once's presence.

= Thus, for most of human history, hunter-gatherers stayed relatively clean and city dwellers got relatively filthy & stinky. You do not want to go without washing your body and your clothes frequently, unless you are prepared to live like a traditional North American Indian including their clothing styles, in which case you can keep more than adequately clean with a weekly or monthly wash.

= Washing clothes by hand in a bucket doesn't save enough energy to be worthwhile. The amount of electricity consumed by the washing machine itself is minimal considering the amount of physical labor it saves (as long as you are using cold to lukewarm water rather than hot). The place where you really save a large amount of energy is to hang your clothes to dry on a drying rack or clothes line (indoor or outdoor), rather than using the tumble dryer. Thus, a fast spin cycle is a major advantage since it uses relatively little energy to mechanically extract most of the water from the fabric, and makes line drying much faster. Use the tumble dryer only where you can't line-dry outdoors and you really need the added heat to sanitize, i.e. when you have a contagious illness or when drying underwear that has not been washed with bleach.

[Heineken]

See, Heineken? We're doomed. Sigh.

I think this says it all.

If we're not even willing to let go of our All-Tempa-Cheer . . .

[Doly]

Most things will wash away in water only, if they are moved around or rubbed enough. Oil and fats, however, don't wash and need some amount of detergent. Detergent works best in hot water (the hotter the better, but here you should make compromises not to damage the fabric and for energy-saving).

You can always try washing your clothes in cold water and, for those items that are still dirty, use detergent and warm water. That's probably the most ecological approach that will still get clothes satisfactorily clean.

[dunewalker]

Thanks for the tip/incentive. The water from our hand-dug, shallow desert well is extraordinarily hard, so I've been double-dosing with the liquid laundry soap. We have a greywater field for the washer, sinks & shower, so the issue is not so much septic load or environmental pollutions per se(the aspens, willows & grasses on our greywater field seem to really like the suds) but more a case of "use less, spend less". For starters I'll decrease the dosage to around 1/4 of what we've been using, with a mind to eventual elimination of any laundry soap. Already I look suspiciously like a homeless person on those rare trips into town. At my recent doctor's appointment , while waiting idly in his exam room while he re-stitched someone else who had just attempted to sever their hand with a power saw, I counted the ABS glue splotches left over from my last plumbing project, on my hand-dyed-with-walnut-shells sweatshirt.

[Rambo]

Look cold water on its own for this mess?

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I've always washed my clothes in cold water. If you have water stains, putting it in hot water will set the stain. I also pre-wash anything that is dirty.

I usually use about half the recommended amount of detergent but think the idea of washing without soap is worth checking out. If nothing else I might use hand soap or some other eco-friendly detergent on the smelly areas (neck and arm pit area).

The problem is that if you have a shirt that has the smell drilled into it (as happens with some intense body odours), it will smell clean when you bring it out of the dryer, but once your body heats it up from wearing it, the smell comes back. Those are the ones you really might want to use some deetergent on or avoid gettting stuck in your clothes in the first place.

[Chicken_Little]

the thing is, washing powder is so cheap, why not just use it?

as Barbara suggested, use half the dose and wash at 40 degrees, then 'live happily and good smelling'.

it doesn't really matter. As Tony Blair recently said, even if Britain stopped all CO2 emissions tomorrow, China's emissions would make up for that within 2 years.

Do whatever you want. it makes no difference.

[Heineken]

Reading these comments is interesting, since they show how individualized, varied, and (in some cases) inflexible are people's approaches to hygiene.

Although I use cold water, no detergent, and (often) no dryer, I seem to have no problems with "body odors," "body oils," "stains," etc. Perhaps fears of these are yet another thing that has been conditioned into us by advertising and the mass culture.

So you smell a little. It's a natural animal thing. And it's a lot healthier than walking around inside artificial-chemical shells.

[gg3]

Jeez. Rambo, I hope that's not you in that picture!:-) Seriously, looks like someone who has a bad case of diarrhea and has just shat in his pants. For something that severe, mechanically remove as much of the accumulated poo as possible (do this over or into the toilet), then wash in lukewarm water to remove the ground-in poo, then wash in boiling water if bleach is not available.

Re. boiling water: As it turns out, this is a viable method for dealing with hazardous cases such as diapers and poopy pants. Get a large pot that is used for no other purpose. Preferably have the fire for this located outdoors so the potentially stinky steam isn't in the house. Drop the affected clothes into the pot and boil for 10 to 30 minutes. Websearch the term "wash boiler" for more information. Folks from Australia who are reading this might know more about this subject since wash boilers were more common there as late as the 1970s.

One thing that could be helpful for dealing with poo: websearch for "Wonder Wash." This little contraption looks like a large cookie jar mounted in a frame with a crank, and costs about $50. You put the poopy pants in, add hot water and detergent, and turn the crank for 60 to 180 revolutions. The point being, it's tolerant of boiling water, and it's a relatively small container, and it's smooth inside so it can be cleaned after use. So you can use it for dealing with small quantities of poopy pants and suchlike, without having to put them in your regular washer and either use a lot more hot water or potentially spread residual contamination around to the interior of the washer where it could get into subsequent loads at lower temperatures.

You do not want to spread Norovirus or E.Coli around your family, household, or community, unless you enjoy the prospect of explosive diarrhea and projectile vomiting for 2 to 5 days, with potential risk of dehydration and death.

Re. body odors: Healthy sweat is one thing and I see no reason to be uptight about it. Unhealthy odors of various kinds are another entirely; they are a sign of something hazardous going on (e.g. fungus, poo, etc.). One way to prevent the latter is to wash your body carefully. For example a little soap on your hands and then wash between your toes, to prevent athlete's foot fungus. Similarly for between your legs, front & back, and under your arms. Rinse your hands between washing the different areas so as to not "mix ecosystems" between them (start with your under-arms, then do the areas between your legs, then feet last of all; i.e. start at the top and work your way to the bottom since the water in the shower will rinse each area in that order). Once again, hunter-gatherers to the rescue here: people who live like traditional Indians tend to stay naturally cleaner, and this is not a bunch of politically correct BS, I have seen it in practice.

In general: We take hygiene for granted. However, sanitation saves lives. In an age when antibiotic resistant bacteria is becoming a serious threat, prevention is more important than ever. On the other hand, in an overpopulated world, it's no tragedy when people darwinize themselves.

[Heineken]

I'm all for sanitation. And, yes, poopy pants should be boiled or thrown out.

But I believe that adequate sanitation in the field of laundry is achieved, for most of us, by washing our clothing in plain cold water and hanging it up to dry in the sun and wind.

Anything beyond that is an expression of the general cultural disease that's going to be the death of us.

[Doly]

But I believe that adequate sanitation in the field of laundry is achieved, for most of us, by washing our clothing in plain cold water and hanging it up to dry in the sun and wind.

Sanitation in clothes isn't such a big issue in most cases. The only clothes that can be a sanitation issue are underwear, and that should be changed often and washed separately with a reasonable amount of detergent (which isn't much, given the little material you're washing).

Still, oil and fat stains will never go away in cold water, and apart from looking ugly, reduce the durability of clothes.

[mekrob]

I'm not sure how much this thread as evolved since I read it (only the first page), but I'd like to comment that they have new, more concentrated liquid detergents (which I use). In addition, at my school, we have highly efficient washers which use even less, so when I do my laundry, I use maybe a teaspoon for a very large load. Just saying for those that still wish to use it.

[Heineken]

Less is better, mekrob, but again, I've found it makes no meaningful difference (as far as my own standards are concerned---admittedly not the same as some people's standards on this matter). But hell, why not go all the way. Then you can pass up the detergent aisle altogether at the supermarket. And what a great feeling that is.

Perhaps the key to all this is drying the clothes on a line outdoors. The sun and wind make clothing smell more clean and glorious than anything that comes out of a dryer.

Obviously, that route is not going to work for apartment dwellers or for suburbanites whose neighbors are enraged by the sight of laundry hanging from a line.

[emailking]

I always wash in cold water since warm water is a waste of coal, but I have found that stains generally come out if I apply detergent right to the stain and rub it in before washing. Not directly applying detergent to the stain allows the stain to hang around, possibly permanently. I plan to continue using detergent until the crash.

[Heineken]

Very well, emailking.

I know that some people need to be mindful of stains because of their jobs and certain social factors.

But, living on a farm as I do, I don't give a hoot about stains.

[emailking]

Very well, emailking.

I know that some people need to be mindful of stains because of their jobs and certain social factors.

But, living on a farm as I do, I don't give a hoot about stains.

In that situation, I probably wouldn't care for most of my clothes either.

[frankthetank]

If you have a problem crapping your pants, then you might want to face that issue before worrying about PO.

I have washed boxers (thats what i wear) in cold water and hung (OUTSIDE) to dry and they smell great (i only wear them one day and then clean). Yes...i do confirm that they are clean with the "nose" test and i have offered the wife to also confirm, but she denies my request often.

However, the majority of the time i do use some detergent (very little) because we have hard water here and the soap doesn't come out is good (or so i've read).

I only wear Merino wool socks in the winter, and usually i get by with just sandles in the summer. Cotton socks don't hold up enough for me. I've noticed that even when my shoes stink, the wool socks just smell like wool...they don't get stinky like cotton.

Growing up my mom washed everything in bleach water. Let me tell you, those clothes took a beating and didn't last very long. The colors faded like crazy.

[Heineken]

Very well, emailking.

I know that some people need to be mindful of stains because of their jobs and certain social factors.

But, living on a farm as I do, I don't give a hoot about stains.

In that situation, I probably wouldn't care for most of my clothes either.

Goodness, of course I care for my clothes. I wash 'em when they're dirty, darn 'em when they get holes, sew on buttons when they fall off. When they finally start falling apart, I turn 'em into rags. (I hardly ever buy clothes, and when I do I do so at Goodwill. To me, the idea of spending $70 for a pair of pants or $40 for a shirt is sheerest madness.)

It's just that I don't obsess about stains.

Most people don't really notice them anyway. We have the idea that the whole world is staring at us and studying us, but most people are busy paying attention to themselves, not others.

[Laurasia]

Okay, I washed our laundry tonight in cold water as usual and cut the amount of detergent I used in half. Noticed no difference from last week. Next week I will cut the amount in half again. I've always hung out the washing, and if it's raining (like tonight) I hang the clothes on airers indoors - I don't get the glorious smell of sun-baked cotton that I love, but I go with whatever the weather demands.

Anyway, if I can cut out, or almost cut out, the use of detergent, I would consider that a mark of progress in my efforts to simplify. Thanks, Heineken, for adding another dimension!

Regards,

L.

[Loki]

OK Heineken, you've convinced me to try washing all my clothes in cold water, even my stinky underwear and socks (and yes, they are very stinky), and to cut my detergent in half. I only use hot water to wash my underwear and socks, but I'll try cold water. I already use half what the detergent box says to use, but I will cut that half in half. If the results are satisfactory, I will cut that quarter even further.

I'm not terribly fastidious about the cleanliness of my clothing. I wear my pants and shirts until they have a noticeable smell, and my underwear two or three times. Socks I wash after one wearing, though. My feet stink bad enough as it is.

Someone else (I think PrairieMule) mentioned this product before, but does anyone have direct experience with the Wonder Clean Washing Machine? I'm seriously considering buying one. I figure it would pay for itself within a year, plus I wouldn't have to wait for my neighbors to finish their laundry, I can do small loads, and it would make washing clothes sans electricity much easier.