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How Will History Judge.

Discussions related to the global politics of energy use and acquisition.

How Will History Judge.

Unread postby Fatherof4 » Wed 27 Oct 2004, 23:12:44

I think it's highly likely that the U.S government had some role in the 9-11 attacks considering our need as a society to feed our insatiable oil hunger. It was the only thing that would galvanize our resolve as a nation to send our sons and daughters into harm's way.

As appalling as that may sound, fact is, in a matter of a few years to a couple decades, the American people will be absolutely clamoring for us to go to war to get the oil we need to maintain our "American Way of Life". We may even be praising the wisdom our our current leadership in being pro-active in this regard, even if they had to lie to us now to get the job done.
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Unread postby johnmarkos » Wed 27 Oct 2004, 23:17:49

I disagree. The American people will not be clamoring to send their own sons and daughters to fight in foreign wars over oil. Who says, "Here son, go get yourself killed on foreign soil so I can keep driving my SUV?"

This administration's lies are falling apart already. How much longer can they hold?
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Unread postby Fatherof4 » Wed 27 Oct 2004, 23:45:01

It won't be about SUVs. It will be more about survival, or at least it will seem like it to us. More like "Son go fight and die on foreign soil for oil so that your little sister can eat. Those foreign so-and-so's are holding the oil hostage and we must make them pay. How dare they think that they can deprive us of such a basic need?"
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Unread postby clv101 » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 00:23:21

Has anyone read 1984? I seem to remember that had something to do with propagating 'phoney' wars as a means to control people.
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Unread postby pepper2000 » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 01:11:35

Someday the oil wars will be over and oil will no longer be a significant part of our economy. When that day comes, I think historians will look on the present time negatively. They will say, "They could have done so much more to build a great and equitable society, but they wasted the opportunity." At least, that's what I am afraid they will say; it might not be too late to change course.
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 09:17:29

The ludicrous concept that the US government had anything to do with 911 will be remembered with other zany conspiracies as a sideline in history. "can you believe people believed that??".

The Industrial Age will be remembered as the age of waste and we will be thought of as spoiled brat hedonists.
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Unread postby Permanently_Baffled » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 09:22:55

Agree with Biker. There is no way that the US government could of been involved in 9/11 without it leaving a trail, just doesn't make sense. Why go to the trouble of blowing both towers and the pentagon. Surely one or the other would of been enough if that really was the idea.

As for fighting for oil , well seems a futile strategy as unless the world stops selling oil to the US they will get less oil by going to war for it.

Besides the worldwide demand destruction caused by PO will relieve the pressure on supply for a while anyway...

PB
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Unread postby NTBKtrader » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 09:30:02

PhilBiker wrote:The ludicrous concept that the US government had anything to do with 911 will be remembered with other zany conspiracies as a sideline in history. "can you believe people believed that??".

The Industrial Age will be remembered as the age of waste and we will be thought of as spoiled brat hedonists.


nail head doink
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Unread postby tmazanec1 » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 11:48:57

I got news for those future historians...if you come up with a sorce of cheap energy you will do the same things we did. Human nature. The only thing we learn from history is that we do not learn from history.
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Unread postby Trazman » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 12:14:21

Baffeled & Biker, You wan't ludicrous? There is no shortage of idiot government employees whos job is to come up with EXACTLY those plans. Case in point...

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/2001 ... hwoods.pdf

This was released in a Freedom of Information Request and published just a few years ago. I specifically like the scenerios on pages 10-12 of the PDF that outline all the "incidents" that the military could stage to look like Cuba was attacking US interests. I especially like the crashing of or blowing up of a civilian aircraft. Kennedy was incensed by this memorandum. But if they can plan it they can do it.

Here's a site that explains the above in plain english and with some timelines.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html


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Unread postby airstrip1 » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 17:50:37

Permanently_Baffled wrote:As for fighting for oil , well seems a futile strategy as unless the world stops selling oil to the US they will get less oil by going to war for it.
PB


Politics is about power not oil. Hydrocarbons are just a means to the end. The US government launched the current adventure in the Middle East to maintain its hegemony in the world not to ensure that Americans could continue to ride around in SUVs. In the long run I suspect that the current administration does not care if populace has to ride about on bicycles.
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Unread postby Grimnir » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 20:31:05

PhilBiker wrote:The Industrial Age will be remembered as the age of waste and we will be thought of as spoiled brat hedonists.


On the contrary, I think once the things we take for granted today have passed into legend, we'll be thought of as gods.
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Unread postby lowem » Thu 28 Oct 2004, 21:13:36

clv101 wrote:Has anyone read 1984? I seem to remember that had something to do with propagating 'phoney' wars as a means to control people.


Yup, I have! Looks like Orwell turned out to have got a few things right. Check out this website :

http://www.orwelltoday.com
Live quotes - oil/gold/silver
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Unread postby PhilBiker » Mon 01 Nov 2004, 08:49:25

I can't help but think Orwell would be rolling in his grave if he saw that web site.
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Unread postby nailud » Mon 01 Nov 2004, 09:25:10

I would guess that we will be look back upon the same way that we look back at our ancestors who drove the mamoths and moas and countless other species to extintion--as ignorant primatives who just didn't know any better.
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Unread postby Specop_007 » Mon 01 Nov 2004, 10:00:09

I have 100 billion dollars. What do I do? Plan an attack against my OWN country, which if found out about would get me SHOT for treason, or drop it into buying oil rights and developing new technologies....
Gee, I wonder....

Where the hell do you guys come up with these completely assinine theories? The GOVERNMENT planned 9/11?? Hell man, you might as well say its Navigators from Planet Arrakis. At least then it sounds entertaining.
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