THE Alcohol (drinkable) Thread (merged)

[Caoimhan]

There are other ways to obtain anhydrous ethyl alcohol. One method involves using glycerine, which is great for the ethanol method of producing biodiesel.

[TurboJoe]

Thank you everyone for quick responses! I didn't expect much response for my first post.

This of course is not for consumption, but rather, testing for fuel and fuel additives. I'm looking at researching and testing combustion events from different fuels, including ethanol. I am looking at testing different proof's and mixtures by possibly producing straight 200-proof ethanol and there-after dilluting to my prefered %.

There are other ways to obtain anhydrous ethyl alcohol. One method involves using glycerine, which is great for the ethanol method of producing biodiesel.

Sometimes I look too far for answers. My father is an Environmental Engineer and just informed me he is helping set up a biodiesel plant. He just started telling me about the use of glycerine in the production. He is also updating me on the local laws of production of alcohol in my state, and the differences between labratory production and manufacturing production.

[DoctorDoom]

Refinement to high purity is a major reason why the EROEI for ethanol is so low (by some estimates, it's negative). If you're looking to use it as a fuel, you'd be better off putting your efforts into ways to use 160-180 proof, which requires far less energy to produce. High purities are needed because we mainly use ethanol as a gasoline additive. You needn't have such a high level of refinement if you burn the ethanol in an engine designed for it. Here's a kinda interesting site on home brewed fuel:

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/

An interesting sub-area of the site mentions that modern ethanol production relies less on wasteful distillation by using "molecular sieves":

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id18.html

I'm still not really convinced - the energy inputs to produce the feedstock are still very large, not to mention soil depletion etc. etc. Certainly, you'd want a better fuel crop than corn - Brazil uses sugar beets, while switchgrass has been suggested for the USA. Using waste products (products that would just be allowed to rot otherwise) makes a lot of sense - you can then discount the energy inputs assuming the waste has no other alternative use.

[pip]

Molecular sieve will absorb the water, but will become saturated at some point. It then is regenerated by heating.

[Yavicleus]

So, I know previous threads have been dedicated to home brewing basics, but what about home distillation? I know it's HIGHLY illegal currently in the USA, but post-peak this is a skill that would be useful to have.

I've been drilling through articles on http://homedistiller.org/ and of course I've read the Possum Living chapter: http://www.f4.ca/text/possumliving.htm

Anybody have anything to add on home distillation technics or tips?

Will I go blind if I use the method described in Possom Living? Because it seems too simple to be true.

I've also heard that solar distillation is possible with alcohol too. Any comments on this?

We can all pretend this is just 'theoretical', right...

[ChumpusRex]

Yup, it's very simple - just energy intensive.

The only thing you MUST remember to do, is throw away the first few ounces that come out of the still.

The first stuff to come out of the still is all the very volatile compounds - methanol (makes you go blind), cyanide, esters (some are toxic, some just taste terrible).

Once all that crap comes out, it's time for the alcohol. Then finally, the water.

[Yossarian]

I agree, Post Peak, this will be useful knowledge

[Yavicleus]

OK, so check this out:



I think this would be pretty easy to build, and you could keep the copper-stem separate from your pressure cooker so that it doesn't look obvious as to what you use it for.

However, instead of allowing the bottom of the copper tube to drip right into your mason jar, I add the following improvements:

1) filter through a coffee filter
2) have the coffee filter sitting ontop of a britta (or whatever charcoal filter you rig up)

These two steps will remove fusil alcohols and off-tastes from the distillate. They also recommend throwing out the first 50 mL of distillate as it might contain methanol (although unlikely, this is a pretty easy step to take).

Basic procedure would be to ferment your stuff, then syphon into the pressure cooker, boil off the first 50 mL, throw away, and then keep boiling until the stuff that comes out tastes like water.

At this point you take your distillate, and re-distill 1 to 2 more times. At the end of this, you can add stuff to flavor the booze to your desire.

ChumpusRex, thanks for the tip. However, if you're distilling the alcohol to use as a fuel and not as a drinking source, you wouldn't need to throw any of it out, just tripple distill.

I wonder if you could burn this stuff in hurricane lamps effectively? Or is it too volitile for that?

edit: here is another home distiller website

http://www.home-distilling.com/

[mekenith]

I don't think an activated carbon process at the end of the copper tubing will work very well. From what I understand it is much better to dilute your distalate to around 40% for the carbon to be maximum efficient. From experience, I know that the first few liters will come out at around 70% and decrease as the run goes onward. Also with a filtering process at the end, you wont be able to make your cuts (eg the initial few ml) and you'll include the volitiles with the ethanol thats safe to drink.

I dont run a setup like this, I run your basic pot still type. So I am not too sure the initial % of ethanol that comes out first. If it comes out at 50% that may be pushing it but I suppose that would be possible.

I have also heard that a pure sugar wash (Sugar, water, yeast, nutrients) will produce little to no methanol in your wash.. so you may be safe doing it that way rather then the traditional way of using corn for the "real" moonshine.

[BrownDog]

http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/still/index.html

I have browsed this book, and it seems ok, but never done it. It has plans for making an electric still that look to be doable by someone with decent skills. The book is written for the US, and emphasizes alcohol as a fuel rather than for consumption. The description in the website says:

The fuel you produce is not going to be cheaper than gasoline unless you have a low cost source of fermentables and want to make a version you can fire with scrap wood or coal. But if you can't buy gasoline at any price, even alcohol at three or four dollars a gallon is a bargain.

For some reason, this seems quaint at the moment.

[Yavicleus]

mekenith: thanks for the info and feedback. As far as what I'll be using as the base for the distillation, my guess is whatever I'll be able to get ahold of post peak. At this point I'm a hobby homebrewer, but I have a feeling that my alcohol producing skills will be what pays the bills in a post peak world.

BrownDog: I wonder how much of a booming industry there will be for 'backyard' fuel producers in the future?

Given my intense paranoia and dislike of jail, I probably won't get around to trying any of this before things really start to get really bad, but I'm sure this info will be helpful to many. Keep it coming!

[EdF]

These plans look really good.

- Ed

[fossil_fuel]

i may be wrong, but doesn't the amazing still not have any provision for removing of foreshots/methanol?

[EdF]

i may be wrong, but doesn't the amazing still not have any provision for removing of foreshots/methanol?

My mistake, I guess. I thought he was more interested in alcohol than methanol.

- Ed

[dooberheim]

I actually did a little distilling as a teenager, using lab equipment that my dad brought home from work.

If I were trying to make fuel, I would ferment a lot of wine/mash in the fall, and freeze concentrate it (outside in the Missouri winter) as best I could. Distill that product - it would be less energy intensive than distilling the unconcentrated wine.

One thing perhaps worth mentioning is if you want to use the alcohol to extend gasoline, it has to be dewatered (100 % alcohol) which you can't do by straight distillation. You have to add benzene or toluene to break the azeotrope and redistill.

DK

[mekenith]

i may be wrong, but doesn't the amazing still not have any provision for removing of foreshots/methanol?

Your right actually.It includes everything in one run. It's impossible to make any cuts and the ethanol you will get will taste off. Just try not to include any ingredients containing pectin such as fruits as this will increase the methanol creation greatly.

dooberheim, thank you for your post. You are absolutely right that you cannot achieve even over 98% pure ethanol via normal distillation methods, but it sure does make a potent drink You can also use it for a rather nice fire starter, and I'm not positive, but I think you could use it in a coleman lamp (anyone know more info on this?)

Yavicleus, if you are thinking about distilling in a post peak world, I would look into solar distilling. You will not need any electricity to run, but it will take a very long time to get results. As an added bonus, you don't have to just distill alcohol, but water if he need arises.

[burtonridr]

I have decided to take up making my own alcohol as a hobby and to possibly profit from in the future. There are many benefits to brewing alcohol. Any left over scraps of fruit or any food that contains sugar can be turned into alcohol with the right blend of yeast, sugar and water. Then all you need is a simple solar distiller (or something nicer) some hoses or tubing and a few things to store it in. You dont even need to boil the water to make moonshine, you just need to raise the temperature to about 104 degrees (like bath water). I would think you could easily get that temperature with a solar cooker(correct me if im wrong, I havent used one yet). It gives you something of value to trade with during PO. I wont go into details because I found a website that already contains, from what I can tell, everything you need to know to make your own alcohol.

Check out this site.

http://homedistiller.org/

This recipe off that site is very easy to make.

A "genuine" moonshine recipe, as still being used by Deb Brewer is ...

* 5 gallon bucket all grain horse feed (we use MannaPro Hi Grain sweet feed)
* one package of yeast (using bread yeast now--others will increase quality and ferment time)
* 5 pounds sugar
* water


Put enough feed to cover bottom of 5 gallon bucket a good 4 inches deep Add 5 pounds of sugar. Fill 1/2 full with warm water--warm enough to melt sugar but not so hot as to kill yeast. Mix until sugar is dissolved. Add yeast and mix some more finish filling with warm water--again not so hot to kill the yeast. Cover with lid--our lid has a little cap that screws on, leave it loose to breathe.

4-5 days later it's ready to run! This is an old-timer recipe and works quite well. Our liquor is always 170-190 proof. You can substitute corn meal for the grain (horse feed) but I don't recommend this for pot stills cuz you can't filter it well enough. The meal will settle and burn in the bottom of your still. The old-fashion way of making corn liquor--with real corn--just is not feasible time wise.

[pstarr]

Yeah I used to make that crap. Bakery yeast, fresh apple cider and raisins. let it boil and burp for 2 weeks and then run it through the copper-tube still. Now I prefer Anderson Valley Pinot Noir

[burtonridr]

how does it taste? any suggestions for a first timer?

[Ayoob]

It's a bad idea. Never distill your own alcohol. It's dangerous and illegal!