THE Euro Thread (merged)

[Ferretlover]

How had the U.S. government come up so quickly with such a comprehensive and coordinated response to the attack of 9/11? How had they decided within hours that an extended "War on Terrorism"was the appropriate action? Why was the current administration willing to expend so much domestic and international political capital in order to pursue the Iraq war? The administration most likely was able to respond so quickly--because it simply had to pull the plans off the shelf.

Since I joined this site, I have observed that the focus on Iraq and the oil there has overshadowed the true reason for the war...that the continued strength of the dollar is in question.

For the past half-century, the U.S. dollar has been the international currency of account for nearly all nations, and it is the currency with which all oil-importing nations must pay for their fuel from the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). For U.S. geo-strategists, the prevention of an OPEC switch from dollars to euros must therefore seem paramount. An invasion and occupation of Iraq would effectively give the U.S. a voting seat in OPEC while placing new American bases within hours' striking distance of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and several other key OPEC countries.

For much of Saddam Hussein's regime, possession of U.S. dollars was a crime punishable by the amputation of a hand. But nowadays the greenback is the hottest item in Baghdad. Since the U.S. led war in Iraq, dollars, either looted from banks or handed out by U.S. administrators, have flooded the currency market. The $100 bill, or the "waraqa," Arabic for paper, has become the preferred trade tool in the city of 5.5 million. "Iraqis see the military in the streets, and they go to shops where many goods are priced in dollars. They can't help but wonder if the dollar will be the main currency," said Dr. Yosra al-Samarai, professor of finance at Baghdad University. Their most frequent complaint is the lack of dinars, which haven't been printed since Saddam's fall.

Here is a well-documented and lengthy article that explains my point great detail. If there is to be a sudden change in world economics, it will happen around the strength of the dollar and oil production.

http://www.rense.com/general34/realre.htm

If the dollar were to cease being the world's reserve currency, all of that would change overnight. So, in a nutshell, it is not about oil, but about which currency "the euro or the dollar" is used to buy and sell oil. President Bush did promise to protect the American way of life. This is what he meant.

[The_Virginian]

Yes and no. The idea was to tie Oil and the Dollar together. After the US won 2 World Wars, was the leading economy /oil User and an leading Producer of Oil....not many argued against using the dollar to buy Oil.

Fast forward almost 60 years and Europe has found her legs again, Oil is starting a decline, China makes most things in the US, and the worls is not so happy with the US being the only "superpower" for 10 years or so. But the Euro was always meant to compete against the Federal Reserve Note, and so it did. The Iraq war is a temporary "save" for the "Dollar."

[MonteQuest]

The idea was to tie Oil and the Dollar together.

Yes, that is why they call it the "petro dollar". A temporary save may well be true, but are we going to see more colonial adventures into say.....Iran to protect the dollar? I guess what I have been looking for is the long-term game plan by the neo-cons and their use of the military.

From all outward appearences and posturing, we just may well see a reinstatement of the draft (now upgraded to 18-26 and includes women) in the spring along with a show-down with Iran over nuclear proliferation....regardless of costs in money or lives.

My word, look at what lengths a lot of us are going to, to survive PO. Does anyone thing the Cheney/oil cabal is not aware of the implications?

[WebHubbleTelescope]

Fast forward almost 60 years and Europe has found her legs again, Oil is starting a decline, China makes most things in the US, and the worls is not so happy with the US being the only "superpower" for 10 years or so. But the Euro was always meant to compete against the Federal Reserve Note, and so it did....

And then think of why England is also a big player in the Iraq war. Although they belong to the EU, they do not use the Euro for currency. Do you think that if they used the Euro, they may have sat this thing out? Who else in Europe does not use the Euro? What "side" are they on?
just askin'

[MonteQuest]

Tony Blair has been lobbying heavily for the U.K. to adopt the euro, and their adoption would seem imminent within this decade.

Here's one link why GB joined the US in war with Iraq.

http://www.paulboizot.co.uk/why_war.htm

Member States as of May 1, 2004: EU25:

Austria
Belgium
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
The Netherlands
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
Hungary
Latvia
Lithuania
Malta
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia

Candiadates:
Bulgaria
Croatia
Romania
Turkey

Application Pending:
Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia

[WebHubbleTelescope]

The list of countries that belong to the European Union is not necessarily the same as the list of countries that use the Euro as currency.

In the technical world, you often find companies willing to join standards organizations or embracing common specifications. The most devious companies often times are the ones that make the biggest noise about standards, then cheerlead the organization startup, and split with their own proprietary solution as soon as the org gets going. Thus leaving everyone else in their wake, fighting over a too-late-to-market piece of the pie. England could be conceivably doing this with the EU. Blair saying they will switch to the Euro amounts to playing this kind of game.

country is the new company

[MonteQuest]

Oh, I agree entirely. I can see many bankers and economists sitting on the edge of their seats watching this all play out. Japan is my canary in the mineshaft country to watch. They are very susceptible to currency fluctuations with regards to oil prices. They could very well start the house of cards falling if oil prices stay up this high for any length of time.

[WebHubbleTelescope]

yes, Japan is one country and economy that will be the last to fold like a house of cards. They almost went into a liquidity gap, but managed to maintain their bearings. How would the US respond when faced with that kind of situation?

[MonteQuest]

You mean the "first" to fold, don't you? Being that we count on Japan as one of our primary investors to float our debt, I guess we would tumble along with them.

Check out my new post in the news forum. I'm still agape!

[The_Virginian]

Web HT,

Yes most of our allies in Iraq from europe were the junior (new) members of the EU that still do not use the EU currency...

The crown will not allow a switch to the Eu currancy IMHO. The puond is too profitable....maybe they are just holding out for a larger slice of the pie, time will tell.

Monte,

Yes i agree Japan is in deep trouble allong witht he USA. No matter that they at least preserved much of the countries industrial infrastructure, they depend on imporitn 99% of all the oil they use...

Their reactors will keep the grid up, but "Toyota" (etc.) is in trouble.

Factor in the debt they buy (as you say), and the fact they depend on exporting to China, USA, Europe Etc. and the whole world is in for an economic disaster if the USA implodes too quickly...

[MonteQuest]

Factor in the debt they buy (as you say), and the fact they depend on exporting to China, USA, Europe Etc. and the whole world is in for an economic disaster if the USA implodes too quickly...

Yes, the central bankers face a choice: let the dollar sink, or pump up their domestic money supply making credit easier to obtain. But it can have a disastrous effect on homegrown banking systems—as the Asian countries discovered in 1997 and 98. Excessive dollar purchases led to excessive money creation, which led to rampant speculation, asset price bubbles and—eventually—a full-blown financial panic, which in turn led to the tech stock bubble crash in 2000.

The irony of this may have been lost on Americans (most of whom were oblivious anyway) but not on the Asians: In trying to prop up the dollar, they blew up their own banking systems, causing a massive run on their own currencies, forcing them to go hat in hand to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for emergency loans of, yes, dollars.

You know, sometimes I wish I didn't know jack-shit about all this economics crap and could just sit back and drink my Corona and lime in peace. And you know, trying to explain PO and currency markets and such to Joe-Blow the Rag Man makes me very afraid of what the coming crisis has in store for us all. Either they won't listen or they don't get it. Never saw so many rolling eyes. Denial will be everywhere , not just in Egypt.

[Barbara]

About one month ago, Iran announced they'll adopt Euro as oil currency.
That's why they are facing a war with USA...

[JackBob]

Factor in the debt they buy (as you say), and the fact they depend on exporting to China, USA, Europe Etc. and the whole world is in for an economic disaster if the USA implodes too quickly...

Yes, the central bankers face a choice: let the dollar sink, or pump up their domestic money supply making credit easier to obtain. But it can have a disastrous effect on homegrown banking systems—as the Asian countries discovered in 1997 and 98. Excessive dollar purchases led to excessive money creation, which led to rampant speculation, asset price bubbles and—eventually—a full-blown financial panic, which in turn led to the tech stock bubble crash in 2000.
The irony of this may have been lost on Americans (most of whom were oblivious anyway) but not on the Asians: In trying to prop up the dollar, they blew up their own banking systems, causing a massive run on their own currencies, forcing them to go hat in hand to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for emergency loans of, yes, dollars.
You know, sometimes I wish I didn't know jack-shit about all this economics crap and could just sit back and drink my Corona and lime in peace. And you know, trying to explain PO and currency markets and such to Joe-Blow the Rag Man makes me very afraid of what the coming crisis has in store for us all. Either they won't listen or they don't get it. Never saw so many rolling eyes. Denial will be everywhere , not just in Egypt.

Given that future scenarios are never proveable until they happen, I could argue the other way round. Having the euro become a petro currency would make it appreciate considerably against the dollar. While this might not be pleasant to tourists ($10 for a Coke - ridiculous!), US manufacturers would love it.

European businesses would find their exports in precipitous decline (everything denominated in euros - too expensive to buy) while the US would export like crazy (everything in $ is now cheap). European countries are even more dependent on exports than the US is since their populations are even more biased towards old people because of the low birth rate. The German and French pension systems make Social Security look robust.

[Falconoffury]

JackBob, let me give you a few more things to consider. If Euro becomes the standard for purchasing oil, the US loses a position of power over oil. The country will be at the mercy of the countries who print Euros. The US imports more oil than anyone, so we would certainly need a huge reserve of Euros. I think the US would collapse without the power over oil. The difficulty in buying energy would make things tough to manufacture and export goods. With the oil dependence and deficit, the US is in a point of no return. The country needs currency control over oil in order to stay afloat.

[JackBob]

JackBob, let me give you a few more things to consider. If Euro becomes the standard for purchasing oil, the US loses a position of power over oil. The country will be at the mercy of the countries who print Euros. The US imports more oil than anyone, so we would certainly need a huge reserve of Euros. I think the US would collapse without the power over oil. The difficulty in buying energy would make things tough to manufacture and export goods. With the oil dependence and deficit, the US is in a point of no return. The country needs currency control over oil in order to stay afloat.

Well as I say, we won't know for sure until it happens. I do agree with the idea in another post that when the US catches a cold, all the world sneezes...

JackBob

[MonteQuest]

European businesses would find their exports in precipitous decline (everything denominated in euros - too expensive to buy) while the US would export like crazy (everything in $ is now cheap).

Jackbob, Yes, the europeans would be able to get some of the free ride we have been having for the last 30 years. But our economy is a consumer driven economy, not one of industrial production. Just what would we export like crazy besides our technology? Weapons of war?

If the US dollar stopped being the reserve currency, we could not attract investment to service our debt. Dollars would be dumped, flooding the market. The Fed would increase the money supply to support the dollar bringing on rampant inflation. We might find ourselves in a Weimar Germany scenario using wellbarrows full of money to buy a burger.

In another post here I explained it like this:

Imagine this: You are deep in debt and have very little money in the bank. But every day you write a check to cover your expenses. Your checks are worthless but they keep buying stuff because those checks you write never reach the bank. You have an agreement with the oil merchants (OPEC) that they will accept only your checks as payment for one thing everyone wants, and must have--oil.

This means everyone must hoard your checks so they can buy the oil they need. Since they have to keep a stock of your checks, they use them to buy other stuff too. You write a check to buy a TV, the TV shop owner swaps your check for oil, that seller buys some vegetables at the fruit shop, the produce man passes it on to buy bread, the baker buys some flour with it, and on it goes, round and round--but never back to the bank where it would bounce. You have generated a huge debt on your books, but so long as your checks never reach the bank, you don't have to pay. In effect, you have received your TV for free!

This is the position the U.S.A. has enjoyed for 30 years--it has been getting a free world trade ride for all that time. It has been receiving a huge subsidy from everyone else in the world. And as our debt grew, we printed more dollars (wrote more checks) to keep trading.

Then one day, one of the oil merchants--let's say Iraq--says he is going to accept another person's checks--the euro--and a couple of others think that might be a good idea, too--let's say Iran and North Korea. If this spreads, people are going to stop hoarding your checks and they will come flying home to the bank. Since you don't have enough in the bank to cover all the checks, you are going to be in big trouble! But you are big, tough and very aggressive. You don't scare the other guy (European Union) who can write checks (euros), he's pretty big too, but given a "legitimate" excuse, you can beat the tar out of the oil merchant and scare him and his buddies into taking only your checks again. And that, in a nutshell, is what the U.S.military is doing right now with Iraq.

Bottom line, foreign demand for the U.S. dollar funds the U.S. federal budget deficits. Foreign investors flush with dollars typically look to U.S. treasury securities as a means of secure investment. With a large reduction in such investment, the country could potentially go into default. For example: If you owe your bank $10,000 and you can't pay it back, you've got a problem. But if you owe your bank $3.5 trillion and can't pay it back, then the bank has a problem. In finance, at least, size does matter. Things could turn very bad, very quickly. Investment money would flee the country, real estate values would plummet, and Americans would shortly find themselves living in Third-World conditions. We'll be like the monarch used to riding around in an extravagant litter, only to find ourselves dropped to the ground with no hands to carry us.

[Permanently_Baffled]

Monte,

Some spot on posts , I have read your links and compared them to debts in other countries and you are right the debt the US is supporting is both huge and unsustainable.

I just have one question if the Iraq war was partly about maintaining the oil trade in dollars what did the UK get out of it ? Surely if Tony Blair is lobbying to get into the Euro he would have not backed the Iraq war as he would have wanted the oil trade to go over to Euro's?

I'm convinced what you are saying is correct , but the above question has been nagging me.

PB

[MonteQuest]

I just have one question if the Iraq war was partly about maintaining the oil trade in dollars what did the UK get out of it ? Surely if Tony Blair is lobbying to get into the Euro he would have not backed the Iraq war as he would have wanted the oil trade to go over to Euro's?

A concrete answer I cannot give you, but I can point you in the direction I am looking and perhaps two sets of eyes can see the light. I am going to go out on a limb and enter territory that many wil roll their eyes at, but if you have found me credible so far, then indulge me a bit, if you may.

Growing up in the midst of the "Cold War," our generation was taught that those who attempted to abolish our national sovereignty and overthrow our Constitutional government were committing acts of treason. And, as I alluded to earlier, to the collectivists, the only dependable way to achieve their goals was through the manipulation of war.

Pre-eminent in playing this game is the famous House of Rothschild. In this country, through their American and European agents, they helped finance Rockefeller?s Standard Oil, Carnegie Steel, and Harriman?s Railroad. American and British Intelligence have documented evidence that the House of Rothschild, and other International Bankers, have financed both sides of every war since the American Revolution. The Rothschilds operate out of an area in the heart of London, England which is known as "The City." All major British banks have their main offices here, along with branch offices for 385 foreign banks, including 70 from the United States. It is here that you will find the Bank of England, the Stock Exchange, Lloyd's of London, the Baltic Exchange, Fleet Street, the London Commodity Exchange, and the London Metal Exchange. It is virtually the financial hub of the world. "The City" has actually become the last word in the country's national affairs, with Prime Minister, Cabinet, and Parliament becoming only a front for the real power.

The Royal Institute of International Affairs in England, and its American counterpart, the Council on Foreign Relations These groups are made up of high-ranking officers of banking, manufacturing, trading, and finance companies with goal in mind, a one world government.

These are extensions of a secret society founded by Cecil Rhodes who made his fortunes in South African diamonds and gold. The Rhodes scholarships established by the terms of Cecil Rhodes' seventh will are known to everyone. Former President Bill Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar.

What is not so widely known is that Rhodes, in five previous wills, left his fortune to form this secret society based upon the theories of John Ruskin; a Professor of Fine Arts at Oxford University in 1870, who taught that those who had inherited the rich culture and the traditions of the British Empire had an obligation to rule the world and make sure that all the less fortunate and stupid people had proper direction. That was basically his message, but it was delivered in a very convincing and appealing manner. One of the best authorities on the Fabian Society is Carroll Quigley, who wrote the book, Tragedy and Hope.

This secret society was formed on January 4, 1884, to perpetuate the concept of collectivism based upon the theories and teachings of John Ruskin, and to carry on the Illuminati conspiracy and ideology. It was called the Fabian Society. The term "Fabian" itself was chosen because it stood for slow and patient conquest.

In April, 1884, their first publication was distributed, a four-page pamphlet called Why Are We Poor? George Bernard Shaw, Arnold Toynbee, H.G. Wells, and people of that high caliber were some of the founding members. Tony Blair, for example, England's Prime Minister, is a member today.

The Federal Reserve, the Income tax, League of Nations, United Nations, GATT, IMF, WTO, these are all as a result of directives sent down by these ruling elite moving towards a one world order.

By now I either have your attention or my credibility is lost forever. It is an article of faith that there are no conspiracies in American life. Yet, a year or so ago, who would have thought that most of corporate America had been conspiring with accountants to cook their books since--well, at least the bright dawn of the era of Reagan and deregulation.

A lawyer friend of mine recently wrote me the following: "The whole situation is a good illustration of how a small number of people with a strong ideology and agenda are capable of hijacking the government while everyone else is engaged in "business as usual." It is especially easy when the President has no substantial knowledge of history, no intellectual curiosity, no fully-formed principles relating to international relations and the use of American power, but does have an astoundingly huge ego and no self-doubt whatsoever. . . "

[WebHubbleTelescope]

The House of Rothschild rules the world, and they are secret so that nobody knows that they call all the shots.

The Freemasons rules the world, and they are secret so that nobody knows that they call all the shots.

Members of Skull&Crossbones rule the world, and they are secret so that nobody knows that they call all the shots.

The Fifth Column rules the world, and they are secret so that nobody knows that they call all the shots.

The Illuminati rules the world, and they are secret so that nobody knows that they call all the shots.

Either only one of these is true, they are all the same thing, or none is true. In the latter case, each group is at best delusional and essentially spend their time sitting in a secret clubhouse while wearing funny hats.

[MonteQuest]

They are all essentially under one common goal. A one world order. Like humans they all have varying ideas more about control than course. Dimiss it all if you like, but their influence has most to do with what is at play in the world, and has since the early turn of this century. I just finished writing a book on the groups and their influence...it led me to this site. Here is an excerpt:

What is reality? The defining dramatic moment in the film The Matrix occurs just after Morpheus invites Neo to choose between a red pill and a blue pill. The red pill promises ?the truth, nothing more.? Neo takes the red pill and awakes to reality?something utterly different from anything Neo, or the audience, could have expected. What Neo had assumed to be reality turned out to be only a collective illusion, fabricated by the Matrix and fed to a population that is asleep, cocooned in grotesque embryonic pods.

Our perspective on the political process, and on the roles of the left and the right, is very far from reality. It is a fabricated collective illusion. Morpheus tells Neo that the Matrix is "the world that was pulled over your eyes to hide you from the truth.... As long as the Matrix exists, humanity cannot be free." Consensus political reality is precisely such a matrix. Growing glitches in the matrix weren't noticed by most people in the West, because the early years of the 20th Century brought unprecedented levels of Western prosperity and social progress. But the matrix cannot fool all of the people all of the time. In the 1960s large numbers of Westerners, particularly the young and well educated, began to notice glitches in the matrix and, as you know, their intervention changed the world.

I know--I was one of those who rose to the occasion. Many of us saw the writings on the wall and began to develop a hypothesis on the origins of the matrix. At that time, it was difficult to garner any solid information to support our hypotheses. Today, with the advent of the Internet, together with the continued unfolding of the New World Order agenda on the ground, it has been relatively easy to confirm and to expand the original hypothesis. The evidence has become overwhelming and conclusive. There is a New World Order agenda; it is a consciously organized project; it brings the end of national sovereignty and the destabilization of Western democracy; it is based on the intentional maintenance of international conflict; and it is to be backed by a ruthless and centralized military force.