Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Lawns are Killing the Planet

Re: Lawns are an ecological disaster

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 01:06:01

Outcast_Searcher wrote:In my experience, when people in suburbia have a goat:

1). They prefer many shrubs over the grass. To the extent if you're available (as a neighbor in my case), they'll gnaw on your hand if you're not hand feeding them shrubbery, while completely ignoring all the nice grass around them.


That is because Goats are evolved to browse, not graze. If you want grazers get yourself miniature horses or Shetland ponies, not goats. Not only are they easier to keep tame, your neighbors are less likely to pitch a fit over a pony than a goat because of the weird way American culture has evolved.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17048
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Lawns are an ecological disaster

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:51:37

Tanada wrote:
Outcast_Searcher wrote:In my experience, when people in suburbia have a goat:

1). They prefer many shrubs over the grass. To the extent if you're available (as a neighbor in my case), they'll gnaw on your hand if you're not hand feeding them shrubbery, while completely ignoring all the nice grass around them.


That is because Goats are evolved to browse, not graze. If you want grazers get yourself miniature horses or Shetland ponies, not goats. Not only are they easier to keep tame, your neighbors are less likely to pitch a fit over a pony than a goat because of the weird way American culture has evolved.

That's interesting, and makes sense (based on where wild goats tend to live). Chickens and goats are accepted in my city's single family dwelling zoned suburbs within a few miles of the city center. (Whether permits are required, I don't know). Horses and ponies, I doubt it. Not being a Lawyer, it's not clear to me, but I've never seen a horse or pony kept in a single family suburban yard in my area.

The stables, etc. I've seen are out in the agricultural zones in my city. The requirements to properly (and ethically) keep a horse look significant to me (which is why I presume paying for a stable for a horse is a significant percentage of the monthly rent for an apartment).

https://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use ... oning.html

Generally, it looks like there are restrictions on keeping livestock, which might well vary a lot by city depending on zoning, how large/crowded it is, etc.

https://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/animals-and- ... s/awfact16
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: Lawns are an ecological disaster

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 16:44:37

Somewhere, Jared Diamond I think, I read humans penchant for lawns is a throwback to our days on the savanah. We like to see the open spaces to assure is no predators are lurking.

Personally I often think of our houses and apartments as caves. Maybe artificial above ground caves. It still very cave like in appearance and function.

We spend something like 90+% of our time in conditioned spaces, not outdoors. So in some ways we are socially more akin to meerkats or prairie dogs than apes. Actually we are pretty close to naked mole rats as we are both highly social colonizers and predominently furless. Eusocial is the term I believe.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18451
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Re: Lawns are an ecological disaster

Unread postby Rod_Cloutier » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 19:48:10

I've often wondered about what the lawns and public parks will look like after a collapse? Some people will have large garden plots, where other neglected areas will quickly be overgrown with bushes and trees.

In the early days, cutting the grass around a house likely reduced the threat of grass wildfires spreading on to your property and burning your house down. Gradually people got used to the look and it went viral...?
Rod_Cloutier
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1448
Joined: Fri 20 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

Re: Lawns are an ecological disaster

Unread postby careinke » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 20:17:23

Sheep work for lawns.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4658
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Lawns are an ecological disaster

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 20:27:50

Rod,
I’ve often thought that highway medians and berms would end up being linear farms. Drainage, irrigation, easy access.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 18451
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Between Canada and Carribean

Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 18 May 2020, 10:45:01

To add to my series of "X is/are Killing the Planet," please welcome the abomination which is the lawn:

America’s Killer Lawns

Homeowners use up 10 times more pesticide per acre than farmers do. But we can change what we do in our own yards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/opin ... ction.html
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 18 May 2020, 19:55:55

dohboi wrote:To add to my series of "X is/are Killing the Planet," please welcome the abomination which is the lawn:

America’s Killer Lawns

Homeowners use up 10 times more pesticide per acre than farmers do. But we can change what we do in our own yards.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/opin ... ction.html


When I lived in South Florida while I was harnessed in the world of commerce we bought a home in a new cul de sac suburb. There were identical mail boxes out on the street and each home was sterile and manicured. My nephew visited us shortly after we moved in and when we first pulled into the street he saw the mailboxes streaming by and he said our neighborhood looked like a video game! I will always remember his comment and to this day it makes me laugh.

Anyway, our property was the only one in the entire area that removed all the grass. I landscaped with 100% natives, tropicals and fruit trees. I was a member of the International Heliconia Society back then and filled the property with heliconias and gingers and the diversity of plant species on our 1/4 acre lot was more than 1000. Including the 250 species of orchids in our screened in porch.

The neighbors gave me weird looks.

We were also the only ones in the neighborhood who opened their windows and turned off the air conditioner when late fall dropped the temperature.

South Florida is a weird place where mono culture lawns are drenched in petro chemicals and folks get boob jobs and botox and all kinds of plastic surgery. Folks move from air conditioned homes to their air conditioned cars to their air conditioned place of work. Retirees are lured to Florida because of the great weather but never seem to be out in the natural air as they stayed in air conditioning 24/7. Bizarre really.

It is a fake new world that nobody questions. Those years I felt like I was living in a freak show. My 1/4 acre lot was my therapy and it was a chaos of biodiversity. Beautiful actually.

And now here in this wilderness I kind of like to landscape with more order, putting in a few straight lines here and there. It's funny, back there in Florida the video game neighborhood forced me to landscape in pure chaos. Here in the cloud forest with so much wilderness I like straight lines when planting.

Glyphosate, the herbicide in Round Up, is something I never would consider using when I lived in Florida. Here in Panama I do use it sparingly around the common area but not on edibles.

Funny how that works out.
Patiently awaiting the pathogens. Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
website: http://www.mounttotumas.com
User avatar
Ibon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 9568
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Volcan, Panama

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 18 May 2020, 22:53:02

Thanks for that perspective.
I'm a bit surprised the neighborhood didn't try some kind of legal action against you.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby C8 » Tue 19 May 2020, 13:03:01

I am still waiting for you to start the "internet posts are killing the planet" thread :P
User avatar
C8
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013, 09:02:48

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Tue 19 May 2020, 15:57:21

dohboi wrote:To add to my series of "X is/are Killing the Planet," please welcome the abomination which is the lawn:

America’s Killer Lawns

[i]Homeowners use up 10 times more pesticide per acre than farmers do.


I can't legally purchase pesticides for residential use here in Ontario so I get to spend a lot of time pulling weeds by hand. However, golf courses are still allowed to use them and of course farmers can use them on the crops that we will be eating.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 19 May 2020, 16:20:55

Interesting to hear that Canadian perspective, yc. I consider golf courses to be a similar abomination, unless they can be managed without pesticides. Still, it's land that could be much better used (or co-used?) as orchards and gardens and wildlife refuges...
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby C8 » Tue 19 May 2020, 19:08:46

yellowcanoe wrote:
dohboi wrote:To add to my series of "X is/are Killing the Planet," please welcome the abomination which is the lawn:

America’s Killer Lawns

[i]Homeowners use up 10 times more pesticide per acre than farmers do.


I can't legally purchase pesticides for residential use here in Ontario so I get to spend a lot of time pulling weeds by hand. However, golf courses are still allowed to use them and of course farmers can use them on the crops that we will be eating.


Why don't you just let the weeds go? Seems like a losing battle and if nobody can use chemicals then I doubt your neighbors would care as their lawn is probably just as bad (unless you are talking about a garden).

BTW- did you mean herbicides in your quoted statement? (you said pesticides)
User avatar
C8
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013, 09:02:48

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby nocar » Wed 20 May 2020, 03:15:57

Yes, golf courses and lawns are really widespread. On my walks around the neighborhood I look at lawns and see if there are any good spots to grow veggies. Sunny location is the primary requirement, and most have some good place (trees and buildings and northern slopes are the major limitations), but few make any attempt. Of course, most Swedes go away for 3-4 weeks in summer, which makes it difficult to grow edibles.

When seeing the golf courses, I imagine allotment gardens instead. Certainly lots of stuff can be grown there. Also here, golf courses use a lot of chemicals. They have signs warning about that. I believe fungicides are the main category.
nocar
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri 05 Nov 2004, 04:00:00

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby REAL Green » Wed 20 May 2020, 05:50:15

Garden on all lawns is really just a niche. Some place within lawns a garden would be optimal but more spots would not work than work. Much more can be done especially urban garden commons where small communities can be formed. Gardening in groups allows support strategies. There might be an expanded effort to do low maintenance options like ground cover, rock gardens or learn to beautify weeds that grow up with pollinators in mind. Allowing animals to use some of the ground in animal farming strategies is another idea but animals require as much work as gardens and many spots will not work. Haying some ground offers some use but hay ground needs fertilizer and mechanical inputs, and labor. Allow orchards is a good idea. In cold climates wood lots for heat could work in places. The whole tradition of planting nonnatives is bad and is an invasive gateway so redesign landscaping traditions completely. All that landscaping cost focus on gardens and productive strategies instead. We spend money on landscaping so have that money work gardens instead.

The key would be to lower energy and chemicals by common concern and pattern land to optimum use. Localism is a key here. Adapting land means labor and more labor will results from people spending more time where they live. Put nice maintained grass where it is of use. To a point strategy of succession of leaving the lawn alone to follow its own course can be allowed but even letting this happens needs intervention at some point becuase the eventual result is often waste land. So, the best that can be done is in sweet spots put a plant strategy and in less valuable spots lower energy, chemicals, and labor to maintain the plant spaces around us with low care strategies. Less can be done but not stopped all together. All adapted lawns eventually need care or the results are waste lands of degrades space around urban areas. Land is too valuable to let go without a plan. No free lunches.
realgreenadaptation.blog
User avatar
REAL Green
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1080
Joined: Thu 09 Apr 2020, 05:29:28
Location: MO Ozarks

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby C8 » Wed 20 May 2020, 15:48:32

FWIW- while they are easy targets for ire, golf courses comprise the tiny fraction of land vs. farming in terms of chemicals applied per acre

What's more, golf course are on the decline already and are closing at historic rates as demographic changes reduce interest in the sport

Wave of golf course closures leaves owners stuck in the rough
More than 800 golf courses have closed in the last decade nationwide, creating a huge real estate problem.


https://www.startribune.com/wave-of-gol ... 391352721/
User avatar
C8
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sun 14 Apr 2013, 09:02:48

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 20 May 2020, 16:15:31

FWIW- while they are easy targets for ire, golf courses comprise the tiny fraction of land vs. farming in terms of chemicals applied per acre


Not all courses are bad news. I know of one that uses no chemicals (they do not spray for mosquitoes or weeds), maintained all original wet areas, removed very few original live trees and basically left natural drainage to do its job. They had to intervene one year when there was heavy floods but they have maintained Audubon status. Lots of raptors and waterfowl as well as songbirds plus coyotes, deer, moose, elk and the occasional mountain lion and bear. Compared to the ranch that is right next door the land damage is actually quite minimal.
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7685
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Wed 20 May 2020, 16:43:46

C8 wrote:[

BTW- did you mean herbicides in your quoted statement? (you said pesticides)


The term herbicide appears to have been phased out in Canada -- it's a pesticide whether it is for killing bugs or plants.
"new housing construction" is spelled h-a-b-i-t-a-t d-e-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n.
yellowcanoe
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:42:27
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Lawns are Killing the Planet

Unread postby dissident » Wed 20 May 2020, 17:59:54

I have a big lawn but I would never consider putting anything on it, including fertilizer. Unlike my neighbours I do not use some noisy, polluting POS lawnmower and use an electric one in mulch mode instead to avoid throwing away nutrients in the form of grass clippings.

Non-electric lawnmowers should be banned. Noise and local pollution are not freedom of expression and not some "rights". People aren't allowed to keep livestock in their backyards so clearly "rights" are only a selective concern.

Having a golf course lawn is idiotic. Let the lawn change its composition from some high maintenance selected grass to a spectrum of "weeds" that better reflect the soil and moisture conditions. It will then not need endless irrigation. As long as it is mowed, grasses will dominate and it will look good unless you have a green carpet fetish.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6458
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests