Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Pops » Wed 04 Mar 2015, 18:06:36

I love RR!

Here from a Moyers Journal
"ON THE ROAD TO ARMAGEDDON: HOW EVANGELICALS BECAME ISRAEL'S BEST FRIEND."
(Video):
BILL MOYERS: Before we go any further, give me a shorthand definition of dispensationalism.

DR. TIMOTHY WEBER: Dispensationalism is a particular way of reading Bible prophecy which divides the Bible into two stories. There's a story about God's earthly people, Israel. And then a story about God's heavenly people, the Church. And the basic premise of dispensationalism is that all Bible prophecies concerning earthly events applies to the Jews. And all of those events will be fulfilled literally in the End Times. So, Israel must be returned to the land. They must stay in the land. Without Israel in the land, there can be none of the other events prophesied in the Bible. There can be no rise of Anti-Christ. There can be no rebuilding of the Temple. There can be no Battle of Armageddon. And there can be no second coming of Jesus Christ. So everything is riding on the Jews, getting them there and keeping them there in the Holy Land.

RABBI MICHAEL LERNER: But I think-- but what you have to add in there is that when this is a step in the process that they see towards the end of end times in which the Jews will be cast down into eternal damnation and to the fires of hell. And only those Jews who convert to Christianity will be okay. And everyone -- all the rest of us so they're welcoming us now -- with open arms and saying, "Oh, we love the Jewish people" But they love the Jewish people literally to death because they they want see those of us who stay Jews burn in hell but not-- not right away. They don't imagine it will happen right away. So there's a staged process. And this is the first stage in the process that will eventually lead either to us converting totally to Christianity or burning in hell. So it's not a really great future for the Jews that those theological people have in mind.
If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-- Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
Pops
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 17704
Joined: Sat 03 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: QuikSac for a 6-Pac

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 05 Mar 2015, 18:01:55

Zarif: The Netanyahu regime ‘should be annihilated’

Dodging some questions, finessing others in extensive TV interview, Iranian foreign minister says Iran has saved Jews three times in its history and threatens nobody

...

Khamenei.ir @khamenei_ir
Follow
Why should & how can #Israel be eliminated? Ayatollah Khamenei's answer to 9 key questions.
#HandsOffAlAqsa
3:44 AM - 9 Nov 2014

...

Image
http://www.timesofisrael.com/zarif-the-netanyahu-regime-should-be-annihilated/


Was watching CNN just now, and Wolf Blitzer said Obama is "very angry" at Netanyahu, and that Netanyahu is "persona non grata" to the Obama administration.

John Kerry trying to convince arab allies, too, that don't like the idea of Iran getting nukes:

Image

Kerry tries to reassure Iran's Gulf rivals on nuclear talks

Gulf countries, like Israel and many Western states, fear Iran is using its atomic program to develop a nuclear weapons capability, something Tehran denies.

Saudi Arabia regards Iran as its main regional rival and the two countries back opposing sides in wars and political struggles across the region, often along sectarian lines.

Saudi Arabia and its allies worry that a nuclear accord will not stop Iran from gaining the bomb. They are also concerned it would ease international pressure on Tehran and give it more room to intervene in regional issues.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/kerry-tries-reassure-irans-gulf-rivals-nuclear-talks-144644365.html


Why Arab leaders are telling Obama to listen to Netanyahu

Largely overlooked in all the hubbub of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech to Congress about Iran this week is that Arab leaders pretty much agree with him.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2015/0305/Why-Arab-leaders-are-telling-Obama-to-listen-to-Netanyahu
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15161
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 06 Mar 2015, 01:17:19

Some food for your memory hole:
Iran and America’s Memory Hole
By Dr. Arnold J. Oliver
Although Israeli Prime Minister Netenyahu in his speech to Congress painted Iran as a threat to peace, he left out important details concerning the relationship between Iran and the West. There is considerably more to the story.
The uncomfortable fact is that, by any fair measure, Iran has been more sinned against than sinning. To explain, we will need to dip into what George Orwell called the “Memory Hole” and review the momentous events of the 1940’s and 1950’s as well as their far-reaching consequences.
For several years after the Second World War, the U.S. had a positive image with many Iranians. After helping to convince occupying Soviet forces to leave the country, and attempting to mediate an agreement between Iran and Great Britain, the American government was generally well regarded. But these good relations were not to last.
During the summer of 1953 a major crisis developed between Tehran and Washington. At that time Iran was an emerging democracy with elected leaders. Led by the popular Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadeq, it was embroiled in a conflict with the British over oil. The Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was owned by British interests and supported by the British government. In a grossly unequal colonial-style arrangement, the Iranians were not even allowed to examine the ledgers.
As the dispute with the British intensified, the Iranians finally became determined to nationalize their country’s oil industry. The British responded by freezing Iranian assets, imposing a worldwide embargo on Iran’s oil, and pulling their technicians out of the country. Oil output slowed to a trickle, Iran’s economy went into a tailspin, and unrest grew. Britain’s destabilization efforts were working.
Although the Truman government had been sympathetic to Iran, in 1953 the new Eisenhower administration accepted the British view that the Iranian regime had to go. On July 11th President Eisenhower secretly signed an order to overthrow Iran’s young democracy. The die was cast.
On August 19th the U.S.-orchestrated military coup emerged triumphant, and the exiled monarch, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, was installed on the Peacock Throne. A secret history of this CIA operation, written in 1954 by agent and participant Donald Wilber and leaked to the press, leaves no doubt as to the central role played by the United States.
Had the Shah been a benevolent ruler, the image of the U.S. in Iran might not have become so tarnished, but benevolent he was not. And to make matters worse–much worse–American and Israeli intelligence agents organized SAVAK, the Shah’s personal secret security force. Before long, Iran developed into a full-blown police state complete with thousands of informers, censorship, arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, and widespread torture and assassination. Of course, none of this was a secret to the Shah’s many U.S. advisers.
According to the Harvard Human Rights Journal, many of SAVAK’s 15,000 full-time agents were “trained in the United States and Israel where they learned ‘scientific’ methods to prevent unwanted deaths from ‘brute force’.” Electrified chairs fitted with metal masks were used “to muffle screams while amplifying them for the victim.” Another historian called the Shah’s methods of torture “horrendous,” and “equal to the worst ever devised.”
Aiming to terrorize an entire population, SAVAK repression was both extreme and widespread. Few Iranian families were spared, and among the victims were family members of the Shiite clerics who would later overthrow the Shah’s regime in 1979, and spark the seizure and hostage-taking crisis at the U.S. embassy.
An honest assessment of these events would lead to an understanding of why the United States government is loathed by so many Iranians. They are fully aware of American complicity with the Shah’s twenty-five year reign of terror. Although the Clinton administration did offer a partial apology, the admission never made it into the consciousness of the American people, nor into the perspective of the main stream media.
Its time for a new direction in US-Iranian relations. Whatever one may think about the government of Iran, tne Iranian people do not deserve to be subjected to the collective punishment of illegal economic sanctions. The U.S. trade embargo against Iran should be lifted. The issue of weapons of mass destruction can only be resolved in the context of recognizing that Iran has legitimate, real, and rational security concerns including Sunni extremism.
For its part, Iran also needs to make changes. Its government must show far more respect for the rights of dissidents and demonstrators. All political prisoners should be released, and press censorship end.
A judicious mix of honest atonement by both sides, along with other confidence-building measures, can lay the foundation for a new and mutually beneficial relationship between Iran and the West.
But above all, Americans need to acknowledge that the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953 was a dark chapter in the history of the United States, and resolve that it not be repeated.
Facebook knows you're a dog.
User avatar
Keith_McClary
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7282
Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Suburban tar sands

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 06 Mar 2015, 06:52:51

I only comment to that Keith as your oft opposite in this quadrant to perhaps confuse you more by saying I agree Eisenhower was an outright evil scumbag.
(Factually I believe Netanyahu is one of the real key 9/11 conspirators. However, to my politics Israel beats any version of Sharia you can name. BN may be capable of evil, but if so, it is with extreme prejudice.)
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9121
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 03:00:00

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Fri 06 Mar 2015, 15:58:13

Zionism is a political ideology, started by religious extremists, that used terrorism to create/expand a Jewish state, how is that any different to ISIL ?
Sure one is our enemy now but the English fought the Israeli terrorist groups too at their begining.
One has more influence and money than the other but neither is morally superior.
The world would probably be a safer place if none existed.
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2172
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 00:43:28

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby kanon » Fri 06 Mar 2015, 20:03:21

So far this discussion has ignored practical considerations such as: what can the U.S. really do here and now, and why should it? Most would agree that the Republican/Bush administration middle east policy was a stunning success, vaulting the U.S. to new heights of prestige and influence. One has to realistically expect Obama to fall somewhat short of that record. There has been no mention of the neo-cons who supposedly still control or manage U.S. foreign policy. Perhaps they are too busy with Syria, Libya, and Ukraine to devote attention to the Iranian negotiations. Furthermore, the imminent threat of Iranian nukes has been around for an entire generation. https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-iranian-nuclear-bomb/

I am a bit cynical on this topic, but I think it is far more likely that Israel wants Iran under sanctions for regional rivalry reasons and is willing to commit unlimited U.S. resources to the cause.
kanon
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri 24 Oct 2014, 08:04:07

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 12:25:33

kanon wrote:Most would agree that the Republican/Bush administration middle east policy was a stunning success, vaulting the U.S. to new heights of prestige and influence.


So Iran starts taking over the middle east instead -- and leftists fall over themselves to support Iran.

The same leftists that decried American wars in the ME. Now Iran is on the march. And the other side is worse, ISIS. The same Left is silent on it all, as usual.

Just personally -- I'm not listening to any leftists anymore, about foreign policy.

All they ever are is anti-American. But they never take a stand against anyone else. Never. Not China, not Russia, not Iran, and you can't even get them to care about stopping ISIS either.

Leftists are not, and never will be, the "law and order" party. They are the political wing that's nevile chamberlain, that's weak, that never stands up, and if you let them run your town or city government then they'll let crime run rampant right outside your door, too. With homeless shelters and heroin clinics down your street, too.

It's just always the same, with the left, always the same.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15161
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 12:59:26

Sixstrings wrote:The same leftists that decried American wars in the ME. Now Iran is on the march. And the other side is worse, ISIS. The same Left is silent on it all, as usual.

Just personally -- I'm not listening to any leftists anymore, about foreign policy.
The "leftists" who called BS on the WMDs and the Iraq-AQ connection, and predicted that your wars would destabilize the ME.
Facebook knows you're a dog.
User avatar
Keith_McClary
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7282
Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Suburban tar sands

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Withnail » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 13:07:11

Sixstrings wrote:
kanon wrote:Most would agree that the Republican/Bush administration middle east policy was a stunning success, vaulting the U.S. to new heights of prestige and influence.


So Iran starts taking over the middle east instead -- and leftists fall over themselves to support Iran.



The last time Iran attacked another country was before the United States existed.
Withnail
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat 19 Jul 2014, 15:45:10

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 14:03:44

Withnail wrote:The last time Iran attacked another country was before the United States existed.


As usual you don't know what you are talking about.

Iranian troops are fighting in both Syria and Iraq right now.

Iran is a major sponsor of terrorism, and has carried out attacks against other countries for the last 30 years.

And who could ever forget Iran's use of "human wave" attacks against Iraq----where young Iranian boys were given a key on a string to wear around their necks, told it was the "key to heaven" and then sent out in human waves to clear minefields by stepping on the mines.

Many martyrs were created in those Iranian attacks. 8)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 21247
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 18:32:48

Plantagenet wrote:
Withnail wrote:The last time Iran attacked another country was before the United States existed.


As usual you don't know what you are talking about.

Iranian troops are fighting in both Syria and Iraq right now.
They are not attacking Syria or Iraq.
Facebook knows you're a dog.
User avatar
Keith_McClary
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7282
Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Suburban tar sands

Re: Israel and US gov disagree on Iranian nuclear negotiatio

Unread postby kanon » Sat 07 Mar 2015, 19:38:04

Just personally -- I'm not listening to any leftists anymore, about foreign policy.

All they ever are is anti-American.


It is a delusion to think that so-called conservatives have anything approaching a monopoly on Americanism. Modern right-wingers are a combination of the old Whig and Royalist parties -- stuck-up elitists who believe themselves better than everyone else and, like Netanyahu, eager for everyone else to do the dirty work. They would sell out America the moment they thought they could get away with it. Did I mention Cheney? However, the "left vs right" stereotype is a pillar of the "divide and conquer" strategy of the elites so I don't want to talk about it other than to note it is phoney.

Back to anti-American. Compare the cost of the middle east strategy and the support Israel at any cost idea versus having not fought wars, not spent $Trillions and aligning with Iran. We would still have plenty of oil to import, no war casualties, and the $Trillions to waste on something more fun. We would not have opened a big door for that evil Putin either. So, the patriotic rhetoric is just a cover up of huge losses and embarrassing failure. You should look in the mirror if you want to see anti-American.
kanon
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri 24 Oct 2014, 08:04:07

Re: THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 13:58:44

Pictures and such at link below quote. Iran appears resolute in their ambitions.

Iranian official calls on West to scrap nuclear arms before any missile talks

DUBAI (Reuters) - Iran will not negotiate over its ballistic missiles until the United States and Europe dismantle nuclear weapons and long-range missiles, a top Iranian military official said on Saturday.

Separately, Iran confirmed that the Iranian foreign minister had met his former U.S. counterpart John Kerry on the sidelines of a Munich meeting last month. The New Yorker magazine earlier reported that Kerry had urged Tehran not to abandon a 2015 nuclear deal, despite tensions with the administration of U.S. President Donald Trump.

While Iran has accepted curbs on its nuclear work - which it says is for purely peaceful purposes - it has repeatedly refused to discuss its missile program, something the United States and European countries have called for.

“The condition for negotiating Iran’s missiles is the destruction of the nuclear weapons and long-range missiles of the United States and Europe,” Iranian Armed Forces spokesman Masoud Jazayeri was quoted by the state news agency IRNA as saying.

Iran says its missile program is defensive, and that it is not related to Tehran’s 2015 nuclear deal with world powers which led to the lifting of sanctions against the country.

European powers and Iran have started talks over Tehran’s role in the Middle East and will meet again this month in Italy as part of efforts to prove to Trump that they are meeting his concerns over the 2015 nuclear deal.

On Friday, the New Yorker reported that during a meeting, which it said was attended by others involved in the nuclear deal, “Kerry quietly urged the Iranians not to abandon the deal or violate its terms - whatever the Trump Administration does”.

Iran’s foreign ministry spokesman Bahram Qasemi, quoted by IRNA, said that Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif “has always met on the sidelines of such international summits with attending personalities and elites ... in the framework of preserving Iranian interests”.

Zarif had met on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference with “John Kerry and Ernest Moniz, foreign and energy ministers of the previous U.S. government, who have a critical attitude towards Trump Administration policies”, Qasemi said.


LINK
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14764
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 09 May 2018, 03:24:24

Just wait the GW drought will bring Irans nuclear despotism to a standstill.

When the people go hungry ... the Ayatollas could no longer fool the own people with USA bashing.

The bomb will not safe the water crisis in Iran nor could you drink oil and gas ;)
#
https://www.bbc.com/weather/features/42746372

https://www.businesslive.co.za/rdm/worl ... ppens-now/

https://lobelog.com/iran-struggles-with ... al-crisis/

https://www.ooskanews.com/story/2018/04 ... est_176270

https://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=73247

Just wait nature (drought) rules in Iran now.


M_B_S
User avatar
M_B_S
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3549
Joined: Sat 20 Aug 2005, 02:00:00

Re: THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 09 May 2018, 10:36:46

Sanctions spell the end of OPEC output deal
Saudi Arabia and its close allies Abu Dhabi and Kuwait hold almost all the spare capacity that could respond quickly to a reduction in Iranian exports.

U.S. shale producers could also increase their output but it would take time and their light crude is not a good substitute for heavier Iranian oil.

Russian firms may also hold spare capacity and could certainly increase output over a 12-month horizon. Their crude is a close equivalent to Iranian grades.

The United States and Saudi Arabia appear to have reached a high-level political understanding in which the United States will intensify pressure on Iran in exchange for Saudi Arabia agreeing to help avoid a spike in oil prices.

The existence of an understanding was confirmed by the U.S. Treasury Secretary who told reporters on Tuesday that “we have had conversations with various parties ... that would be willing to increase oil supply”.
Facebook knows you're a dog.
User avatar
Keith_McClary
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7282
Joined: Wed 21 Jul 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Suburban tar sands

Re: THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 09 May 2018, 12:07:11

Yeah sure, we know the world is awash in crude, right? Meanwhile I expect prices to rise about $10/bbl possibly more. How much they actually rise will depend on what countries actually do in terms of sanctions and how that effects the international flow of oil.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14764
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 02:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby dissident » Sat 12 May 2018, 08:41:53

Tanada wrote:Yeah sure, we know the world is awash in crude, right? Meanwhile I expect prices to rise about $10/bbl possibly more. How much they actually rise will depend on what countries actually do in terms of sanctions and how that effects the international flow of oil.


Indeed. A vapid propaganda piece that rests on the notion that OPEC has arbitrary spare capacity. This is no longer true for Saudi Arabia and is no longer true for OPEC as a whole. I don't see where they get the idea that Russia will crank up production. The current price rise is giving it a massive incentive not to raise production.
User avatar
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5158
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 02:00:00

Re: THE Iran & the Nuclear Factor Thread pt 2 (merged)

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 12 May 2018, 11:03:37

Indeed. A vapid propaganda piece that rests on the notion that OPEC has arbitrary spare capacity. This is no longer true for Saudi Arabia and is no longer true for OPEC as a whole.


Horsepucky. Please show us your evidence that Saudi Arabia doesn't have spare capacity. According to everything that has appeared anywhere, their total capacity currently sits at 12.5 MMB/d which means they have a space capacity north of 2 MMB/d.
That spare capacity was put in place through the megaprojects which were completed from 2006 through 2010. Billions of dollars were spent, foreign contractors who attest to the projects having been successful etc.
Next you will be arguing that the moon landing was faked. :roll:
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5946
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 02:00:00

Previous

Return to Geopolitics & Global Economics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests