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climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 07:00:24

Yet the problem exists.

I’ve no answer either.

Now what?
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 07:54:55

Newfie wrote:Yet the problem exists.

I’ve no answer either.

Now what?

Get ready to deal with the consequences I suppose. Start by sorting out what is likely to happen from all the hyperbole and exaggeration.
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 10:13:07

vtsnowedin wrote:
Newfie wrote:Yet the problem exists.

I’ve no answer either.

Now what?

Get ready to deal with the consequences I suppose. Start by sorting out what is likely to happen from all the hyperbole and exaggeration.


Take it a step further. Stop feeling guilty that you are contributing to the problem, live in the moment, eat drink and be merry.

Stop fooling yourself that you can be the change. Get over the guilt already.

Stop the duplicitous hypocrisy of contributing to the problem in your day to day life while you spew the latest earnest proposals to solve the problem which you know you cant.

Set yourself free.

Begin to understand that all those unconscious sheeples out there are actually better adapted than you!
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 11:48:38

Ibon wrote:Stop the duplicitous hypocrisy of contributing to the problem in your day to day life while you spew the latest earnest proposals to solve the problem


I think Plant with his jetsetting is the proper target of that zinger.
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby dissident » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 13:22:03

Ah that old chestnut, you must live the ascetic life to be credible.

F*CK OFF.

Jevon's paradox is a nice way to put this BS in its place. If one person forgoes usage of gasoline and any other CO2 generating activity, then the rest of society will pick up the slack. It is impossible to "fix things" on a one by one basis. It can only be done through organized mass action.

Deniers know this and engage in disruption of any mass action which requires proper government policy to work.
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby Ibon » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 15:46:50

asg70 wrote:
Ibon wrote:Stop the duplicitous hypocrisy of contributing to the problem in your day to day life while you spew the latest earnest proposals to solve the problem


I think Plant with his jetsetting is the proper target of that zinger.



You know asg70, we all start making progress when we look in the mirror instead of pointing out others shortcomings.

Like all those eco tourists who cross oceans and countries in order to watch birds here in our cloud forest resort.

All of our shit stinks. Recognizing your own duplicitous hypocrisy is a great place to start.
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 16:10:22

+1
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 11:17:34

vt wrote: "... six parts per million each year but fortunately about half is reabsorbed by plants and plankton so it will take about thirty years to take the CO2 concentration from 400 to 500 parts per million..."

First, you forgot direct absorption into ocean water (the reason the oceans have already become 30% more acidic/less alkali). Second, we can't depend on these 'sinks' to continue to provide this service forever. There is evidence that the plant/phytoplankton sinks may be turning into net carbon sources, though the ocean waters will likely continue to absorb carbon for as long as we keep increasing CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere (though warmer oceans will do so somewhat less effectively).

On the other point, yes, we obviously need ever elusive global systemic shift away from fossil-death-fuels, but in the mean time, I'm seeing a lot of rationalization for people's personal contribution to the mess. Smart people are also very clever at such self-serving rationalization.

I do agree that: "All of our shit stinks. Recognizing your own duplicitous hypocrisy is a great place to start."
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby vox_mundi » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 11:43:13

We Think We’re The First Advanced Earthlings—But How Do We Really Know?

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As a species, we humans tend to take it for granted that we are the only ones that live in sedentary communities, use tools, and alter our landscape to meet our needs. It is also a foregone conclusion that in the history of planet Earth, humans are the only species to develop machinery, automation, electricity, and mass communications – the hallmarks of industrial civilization.

But what if another industrial civilization existed on Earth millions of years ago? Would we be able to find evidence of it within the geological record today? By examining the impact human industrial civilization has had on Earth, a pair of researchers conducted a study that considers how such a civilization could be found and how this could have implications in the search for extra-terrestrial life.

The study, which recently appeared online under the title "The Silurian Hypothesis: Would it be possible to detect an industrial civilization in the geological record", was conducted by Gavin A. Schmidt and Adam Frank – a climatologist with the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (NASA GISS) and an astronomer from the University of Rochester, respectively.

In what they deem the "Silurian Hypothesis," Frank and Schmidt define a civilization by its energy use.

Human beings are just entering a new geological era that many researchers refer to as the Anthropocene, the period in which human activity strongly influences the climate and environment. In the Anthropocene, fossil fuels have become central to the geological footprint humans will leave behind on Earth. By looking at the Anthropocene's imprint, Schmidt and Frank examine what kinds of clues future scientists might detect to determine that human beings existed. In doing so, they also lay out evidence of what might be left behind if industrial civilizations like ours existed millions of years in the past.

... they compare past extinction level events to determine how they would compare to a hypothetical event where human civilization collapsed. As they state:
... "The clearest class of event with such similarities are the hyperthermals, most notably the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (56 Ma), but this also includes smaller hyperthermal events, ocean anoxic events in the Cretaceous and Jurassic, and significant (if less well characterized) events of the Paleozoic."

According to the team, the events they did consider (known as "hyperthermals") show similarities to the Anthropocene fingerprint that they identified. In particular, according to research cited by the authors, the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM) shows signs that could be consistent with anthorpogenic climate change.

Schmidt points to an irony, however:
... if a civilization is able to find a more sustainable way to produce energy without harming its host planet, it will leave behind less evidence that it was there.

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“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby Cog » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 16:30:01

Is something bad supposed to happen at 500 ppm CO2 that I have not been informed about?
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Re: climate change "existential" threat to humanity

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 18:00:36

I believe the information has been provided.

But to leave the snide comments aside 500ppm is not a Wall. There are likely tipping points which we do not want to pass. Their exact figure is unknown. Mild be 500 or 550 or could be we have already passed, as some credible sources suspect.

Our grandchildren will have a better idea what we have done.
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