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THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 13:58:24

All indications are that the autonomous cars are already way safer than manual drivers. I have seen many people reading books or watching a tablet screen behind the wheel, and not all of these fools are in autonomous vehicles, some think that they can multitask in traffic.

However, autonomous vehicles with rooftop scanners have been prowling Silicon Valley for years. We just had the first ever fatality in an autonomous vehicle, whereas during the same period hundreds have died in manually controlled cars.

The next step is somebody will do the stats to see how much traffic fatalities are reduced. Then the DOT will mandate the AI controls. Then the cities and towns will start to post NO MANUAL DRIVERS PERMITTED on the streets of their downtowns.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby diemos » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 14:01:53

pstarr wrote:You are in a blinding snowstorm, another (is it the fifth or sixth? I lost count lol) nor'easter driving happily up rt 95 in in Norwalk Ct. A clump of snow and ice falls off a bridge and bam . . . it jams your LIDAR. The side sensors can't see in the dark. Better wake up lol Tesla has taken a dump


Yup, their ability to handle off-normal conditions is still unclear. Computer have an annoying habit of barfing at any input they're not expecting or don't know how to deal with.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 14:05:44

diemos wrote:-snip-

Yup, their ability to handle off-normal conditions is still unclear. Computer have an annoying habit of barfing at any input they're not expecting or don't know how to deal with.


Not to mention, you see examples of monumentally stupid human driving every day on our roads. Driving better than the average human is a pretty low bar.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 14:41:52

Just when you thought this place couldn't have gotten worse. He's baaaaaack.

Image

And it didn't take him long to say something factually incorrect.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/05/flipp ... s-to-work/

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HALL OF SHAME:
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby careinke » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 15:17:36

pstarr wrote:You are in a blinding snowstorm, another (is it the fifth or sixth? I lost count lol) nor'easter driving happily up rt 95 in in Norwalk Ct. A clump of snow and ice falls off a bridge and bam . . . it jams your LIDAR. The side sensors can't see in the dark. Better wake up lol Tesla has taken a dump


Something similar happened to the adaptive cruise control/anti collision system in my Toyota. The car let me know in no uncertain terms it was having problems, and the system was no longer reliable. Not a problem.

Systems are built all the time that can handle failures gracefully. In a fully autonomous car, I see no problem programming the car to pull off the road and call for assistance.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 17:42:28

asg70 wrote:Just when you thought this place couldn't have gotten worse. He's baaaaaack.

Image

And it didn't take him long to say something factually incorrect.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/05/flipp ... s-to-work/


Personal attack, knock it off.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 17:47:32

The autonomous cars require a certain degree of conformity from the road they travel. I frequently drive roads with no or very faint white and yellow lines, if not dirt. It’s funny to think someone driving an off-road 4wd vehicle would see AI cars as a future requirement.

I see the AI cars as demanding a certain level of roadway maintenance, if the road does not meet certain standards the car defaults to manual operation, assuming the ocuppant is capable of operating the vehicle.

So what happens when you get deferred maintenance? Like we have on such a huge portion of our bridges.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 23:14:54

Give it up, Pete. We are talking about a time two decades from now when autonomous cars will have visible/infrared vision, ultrasound, radars, and audible sensors, plus other sensors not thought of yet, and will be networked to warn other vehicles that there is an incredibly dangerous, manually driven vehicle on the road. Wherever you drive your manually controlled car, continuous video and sensor records will be filed and sent to your insurance company, who will decide just how many hundreds of dollars to add to your insurance bill for terrorizing the passengers of the other vehicles with your incredibly dangerous manual vehicle on that one trip. These will be needed for the dozens of lawsuits from the other passengers on the road in their safe autonomous vehicles, who will be suing you for mental anguish, terrorism, and then filing claims for PTSD, all because you didn't want Robby the Robot driving.

Do you "get it" yet? Are you still thinking that a manually driven road vehicle will either be something you can afford to drive because of insurance rates, or something the authorities would even let you drive because of the risk to others? Because the option of manual controls will be disappearing from future vehicles.

When the time comes, it won't be your choice. Call a cab and an empty vehicle pulls up to your residence. Try to buy a manual vehicle, and they'll ask you to post a hundred grand in bond, then wait a year for the special order. Then show proof of insurance for a manually driven vehicle, which will be hyper-expensive. Either that, or walk everywhere.
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Re: Autonomous cars could reshape cities as we know them

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 22 Mar 2018, 16:02:36

pstarr wrote:AdamB, as of late your response to critical analysis (such as that promoted by dirtyharry) seems always to return to several Tony Seba videos. You owe us a direct and concise analysis and discussion of his data and model for 'disruptive'
systems.


Nice to see you back Pete. Thought that with the legalization of weed in California your main goal in life wouldn't allow for any hobbies that required anything intellectually strenuous and we'd never see you again.

I owe you nothing, if only because it is unlikely you have given more than 10 seconds of thought or viewing to Tony Seba's points, and have no intention of doing so, but instead just are looking to waste my time. I invest some time, give an answer, you don't read the answer, and claim that peak oil happened a decade ago and that is more of a valid point that anything I wrote.

Prove you watched Tony's video, and I would be happy to have a conversation with you on the topic.

pstarr wrote:
When is Tony Seba's 'disruption' going to happen?


Your myopia, or just technological or current events ignorance, isn't my problem. Perhaps you missed some recent items of interest, but I didn't. Uber’s self-driving trucks have been hired to deliver freight in Arizona
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 22 Mar 2018, 16:31:35

Pete, the one point you have not addressed: Driverless cars are more than a decade old, and this is the first pedestrian fatality. The Tesla driver fatality of last year (when he rammed a semi at speed) was finally attributed to a vanilla problem of defective brakes, unrelated to the Autopilot function.

During the same period, human drivers slew and maimed tens of thousands of people.
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Re: THE Self-Driving Car / Ridesharing Thread

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 22 Mar 2018, 16:40:09

One has to wonder how things like this (Uber car apparently doesn't even see or react at all to pedestrian crossing the road at night, per the video evidence) can still happen, with all the testing going on.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... sh-arizona
Video of the first self-driving car crash that killed a pedestrian suggests a “catastrophic failure” by Uber’s technology, according to experts in the field, who said the footage showed the autonomous system erring on one of its most basic functions.

Days after a self-driving Uber SUV struck a 49-year-old pedestrian while she was crossing the street with her bicycle in Tempe, Arizona, footage released by police revealed that the vehicle was moving in autonomous mode and did not appear to slow down or detect the woman even though she was visible in front of the car prior to the collision. Multiple experts have raised questions about Uber’s Lidar technology, which is the system of lasers that the autonomous cars uses to “see” the world around them.

“This is exactly the type of situation that Lidar and radar are supposed to pick up,” said David King, an Arizona State University professor and transportation planning expert. “This is a catastrophic failure that happened with Uber’s technology.”


Maybe the accident couldn't have been avoided by an alert human driver, as many commenters on various stories showing the video contend. However, I KNOW I have personally avoided a number of accidents in my city involving multiple turn lanes where I had to react damn fast.

Common (but not universal) factors were:

1). Poor visibility for lanes/markings via rain, wet streets, or both, at night.
2). Such lanes being relatively new (within a couple of years) in my city.

I'm sure I would have been in at least three collisions where another car (or Semi-truck in one case) entered my lane in the middle of the turn, if I hadn't reacted MUCH more quickly than the interval in the video from when the person becomes visible to where the crash is imminent.

So the issue I have is not whether the accident could/should have been completely avoided, but that NO action was taken by the car at all, indicating complete lack of awareness of the danger. (I might well have hit this lady if I wasn't quite sure I could safely jerk the wheel to try to veer around her (i.e. cars possibly in blind spots, etc), but I can't imagine I wouldn't even have touched the brake if I were paying attention).

This is with a pedestrian entering the road and crossing an entire lane for several seconds before the car got close. A human could only see for a couple of seconds, but Lidar, etc. should have been able to see (and slowed way down via prudent cautiousness) for perhaps 7 seconds ahead of time.

This reminds me of Teslas crashing into big red firetrucks partially in a lane, or into big orange street cleaners partially in a lane, or an entire semi-truck crossing straddling the entire road. There were always excuses. This time there's no intervening cars, glare, smog, etc. to blame. No apparent bad weather to blame.

Yes, the pedestrian was stupid and was at fault. But until self-driving technology routinely proves that it just doesn't completely fail to even notice pedestrian, bicycle and all completely, I don't want them barreling down the road. I think it's time a lot more serious and thoughtful and standardized regulations are implemented.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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