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Puerto Rico

Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 12 Mar 2018, 07:14:28

Ya know it’s hard to say. Rich mix with poor shoulder to shoulder. Was a place destroyed by a hurricane or did it look like that before? Is it being hammered back together with make shift materials or was it constructed with make shift materials?

I surely see some places that are being fixed in a professional manner. And I see some that are pure sweat equity. And I see some that look like the hurricanes could have only improved. All kinds of people, all kinds of response.

I will say I don’t see a down heartened and dejected populace. I see people going about their lives, just another hurdle.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 12 Mar 2018, 08:59:47

Newfie wrote:
I will say I don’t see a down heartened and dejected populace. I see people going about their lives, just another hurdle.

That is good to hear.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby wildbourgman » Mon 12 Mar 2018, 14:53:18

It's funny to come across this, I haven't posted for a while but just been lurking. My family and I spent an afternoon in Punta Santiago during a week long visit to PR a few years back. I really enjoyed it, it was my second trip to PR. One of the changes that I noticed between trips was that the people we came across spoke less English the second time around, which makes since with the mass exodus to the U.S. mainland during the timeframe.

The funny thing is that my wife and I were talking about above ground power lines in the United States being just ridiculous in this day and age. I live in Louisiana and like Puerto Rico we deal with harsh weather where power lines routinely get hammered. Even normal traffic accident take out the power regularly. We did notice that Puerto Rico had the same or worse above ground electrical infrastructure as many parts of the United States.

Newfie, hopefully you can enjoy Puerto Rico. One of the things we enjoyed was shopping and eating at strip market called Luquillo. Check it out if it's still available.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 12 Mar 2018, 15:07:06

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A few pics from my inland trip today.
Pic 3 shows holding back a slide.
Pic 4 if you look closely, shows the top stub of a pole dangling mid air.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 18:50:04

A couple of posts above I noted the wind farms here around Salinas (the Santa Isabella wind farms mentioned in the link) seemed to have fared OK. That does not seem to be the case further East. That sort of makes sense. Supposedly the Eye passed right over Salinas. The dangerous auaderant, where the worst winds were, would have been East of here.

I’ve been told that the wind farms to the East were destroyed as well as the solar farms. That seems to backed up by the below post from back in October. I’m not driving over that way so I won’t see for myself.

https://m.accuweather.com/en/weather-bl ... o/70002879

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/phot ... uerto-rico
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 11 Apr 2018, 05:49:35

Puerto Rico to get $50 billion over next 6 years

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1HH3IR

Sounds like a lot, but up to half of housing may be “informal.” Not leagal, not to code.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 12:50:03

BREAKING: A massive power outage is being reported across Puerto Rico, from the southern part of the island to the north.

PREPA says there’s an “event” of the 50900 line which runs north to south

Previous failures of this line have affected most of the 1,473,000 customers


https://twitter.com/davidbegnaud/status ... 8442600450
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 15:01:03

dohboi wrote:
BREAKING: A massive power outage is being reported across Puerto Rico, from the southern part of the island to the north.

PREPA says there’s an “event” of the 50900 line which runs north to south

Previous failures of this line have affected most of the 1,473,000 customers


https://twitter.com/davidbegnaud/status ... 8442600450

Well, there's a great example of why taxes for infrastructure, to EFFECTIVELY build and manage that infrastructure are needed.

1). Should nearly the entire island be subject to interruption from a single point of failure, when the failure is as common as a single falling tree?

2). How long is it reasonable / expected for such an outage to last in Puerto Rico?

3). How much would it cost to have reduncancy via two main lines to prevent such a huge outage from a single tree falling.

In a system built and managed properly, such questions would be easy to answer and taxpayers, via their politicians, should be able to come to appropriate answers.

In the economic mess that is Puerto Rico, spawned largely by lots of corruption, who knows?

....

Observation -- a single large solar plant or battery system doesn't help this if such single point of failure lines to almost the entire island are used from the plant.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 16:42:29

Puerto Rico’s blackout is now the second largest on record worldwide

Thousands are still without power across the island months after Hurricane Maria struck.


https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229172/ ... cane-maria
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 17:14:40

https://earther.com/what-does-puerto-ri ... 1822030917
Good article citing the surge in crime especially murder tied to entrenched poverty made worse by the hurricane. So social problems magnified in the wake of Maria. Also implicated is lack of police. Bad situation all around
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 17:50:30

Look, let's talk practicality here.

There are places in the USA where above ground power poles make sense. These include the entire interior of the country. While it is true that wooden poles are obsolete and creosote is a potent carcinogen, poles can be constructed of fiber-cement, steel-reinforced concrete, tubular steel, and even recycled plastic. Even though these areas are upon occasion subject to high and damaging winds up to and including tornadoes, the damage tends to be localized and easily repaired. In the interior of the country, major transmission lines need to be safely underground to spare them from damage, but secondary transmission lines and the "last mile" infrastructure should be safely above ground and built to last.

But in coastal areas and islands like PR, high and damging winds are not random events, they are seasonal occurrences, and power transmission and distribution should be underground and shielded from damage. YES, I know PR is a poor area and that really does not matter, because the taxpayer gets the bill anyways. So let's pay for everything ONCE and DO IT RIGHT.

In both PR and the North American coastal areas devastated by hurricanes, we should have strong zoning and building codes to protect the people and the environment. Infrastructure renewal is something we only want to pay for ONCE.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 18:17:08

" In both PR and the North American coastal areas devastated by hurricanes, we should have strong zoning and building codes to protect the people and the environment. Infrastructure renewal is something we only want to pay for ONCE."
I agree totally with what your saying Kaiser. But to be even more frank, we know the world is made up of could of, would of, should of. It always comes down to money doesn't. Goodness, PR has not even been able to service its Debt. How can anyone expect them to upgrade infrastructure. In fact, in the mainland US it has become clear that much infrastructure is old and becoming dangerous. The point being that the world of have's and have nots is tilting ever more to the have nots. This is the Long Emergency that JHK refers to. But also understand that deliberate policies exist which allow the rich to get richer and the poor poorer. No way to sugar coat that. The recent economic history of the US since 2008 is an example. Billions to bail out Banks and what about the average person.

The best system Capitalism is failing woefully. But they're is no do over. However, what you are seeing in various countries is people banding together to help each other in diverse ways among which is Bartering. When you are the losers in Capitalism, you have to seek alternatives. Some find it in crime and others are trying to find it without hurting others. But make no mistake about it, this trend will just worsen over time. It is the nature of the might makes right Capitalism. In this case might is money.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sat 14 Apr 2018, 18:26:20

If I were a citizen of PR I would be insulted by your dissertation. THEY are Americans, as we are. OUR money. :mrgreen:

As for Capitalism, that is simply how apes behave.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 09:38:53

Well put, ol.

More here:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/ ... ter-523033

FEMA’s plan underestimated Puerto Rican hurricane

In preparing for the storm, the disaster agency failed to anticipate the level of damage or extent of federal involvement required.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 11:22:06

dohboi wrote:Well put, ol.

More here:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/ ... ter-523033

FEMA’s plan underestimated Puerto Rican hurricane

In preparing for the storm, the disaster agency failed to anticipate the level of damage or extent of federal involvement required.

Consider that the plan was developed and paid for during the Obama administration. Any suggestion that the local government was corrupt or incompetent would have cost the planner the contract.
A clear case of "Non are so blind as those that refuse to see".
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 12:21:51

t wrote: "Non are so blind as those that refuse to see"

Or...perhaps..."None are so blind as those who refuse to spell check?"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And then there's "...during the Obama administration..."

Maria hit in late September last year...perhaps your short-term memory is really fading? That's 9+ months into tRump's term. You can't keep blaming Obama for everything forever (unless you're Plant, of course :lol: :P ).

"None are so blind as those who will not fact check" (Or even get the quote they were groping for right!) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/there_ar ... ll_not_see
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 20:38:07

“The plan, which was developed by a FEMA contractor in 2014 in anticipation of a catastrophic storm and utilized by FEMA when Maria hit last September, prepared for a Category 4 hurricane and projected that the island would shift from response to recovery mode after roughly 30 days. In fact, Hurricane Maria was a “high-end” Category 4 storm with different locations on the island experiencing Category 5 winds. More than six months after Maria made landfall, the island is just beginning to shift to recovery mode.”

2014
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 15 Apr 2018, 22:13:26

KaiserJeep wrote:If I were a citizen of PR I would be insulted by your dissertation. THEY are Americans, as we are. OUR money. :mrgreen:

As for Capitalism, that is simply how apes behave.

1). They don't pay federal income taxes in P.R. because they've never voted for statehood. If they were a US state, they'd be paying federal income taxes.

Where do you think the money is coming from to rebuild their infrastructure? Hint: It's not coming from bankrupt P.R. coffers.

2). So what economic system do you propose for the US to make the financial system much better? Capitalism, warts and all, tends to build a lot of wealth in the US. And like it or not, as a class, the wealthy pay a tremendous amount of US federal income taxes.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 02:27:41

dohboi wrote:t wrote: "Non are so blind as those that refuse to see"

Or...perhaps..."None are so blind as those who refuse to spell check?"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And then there's "...during the Obama administration..."

Maria hit in late September last year...perhaps your short-term memory is really fading? That's 9+ months into tRump's term. You can't keep blaming Obama for everything forever (unless you're Plant, of course :lol: :P ).

"None are so blind as those who will not fact check" (Or even get the quote they were groping for right!) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/there_ar ... ll_not_see

Some of us have sufficient memory to not have to go to Wiki or a book of quotations every time we wish to make a point.
Apparently other then being a spelling Nazi you don't read well enough to understand or remember that Obama was in office when the plan was written or understand that such plans take years to prepare and are not automatically redone or scrapped on inauguration day.
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Re: Puerto Rico

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 17:57:37

Maria crossed Dominica (not DR) and took a hrd swipe at it. Just took a short walk in the woods today. I saw a medium voltage power line down, no attempt at repair. The woods took a beating, the trees all have their extremities ripped off, they are largely leafless. They are sprouting new growth but the hillsides have whatooks to be a grey haze, broken and leafless limbs.

A local guy said half of folks are without power. That may or may not be true, or only locLly true. Many roofs gone. Some relief agencies distributing building supplies. Boats up on the beach. But things are operating for us cruisers. Ate in a small restaurant today, new roof on the place.

I’ll write more if anything insteresting pops up.
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