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What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' threads

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What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' threads

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 26 Oct 2014, 13:26:46

I can't find them. Are they buried? Lost?
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Re: What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' thr

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 26 Oct 2014, 13:40:18

II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
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Re: What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' thr

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 26 Oct 2014, 13:45:45

Yeah. That one. Hmmmm? Never mind. :)
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Trump pushes Big Corn and Oil to break biofuels deadlock

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 04 Mar 2018, 21:06:21


U.S. President Donald Trump urged representatives from the rival oil and corn industries on Thursday to break a deadlock in talks over the future of the nation’s biofuels policy by accepting a deal involving reforms sought by both sides. FILE PHOTO: The Philadelphia Energy Solutions oil refinery is seen at sunset in front of the Philadelphia skyline in Pennysylvania, U.S., March 24, 2014. REUTERS/David M. Parrott/File Photo Trump has arranged a series of talks between Big Corn and Big Oil since late last year amid rising concern in the White House over the U.S. Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), a law requiring refiners to mix biofuels such as corn-based ethanol into their fuel. The decade-old policy was intended to help farmers and reduce petroleum imports but has increasingly divided farmers and energy companies - two of Trump’s most important constituencies. Refining company Philadelphia Energy


Trump pushes Big Corn and Oil to break biofuels deadlock
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Re: What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' thr

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 05:16:53

My own problem with the biofuels is that - at least in the case of the ethanols - they are making either human food or cattle/chicken food into fuels. I have an ethical problem doing this in a world with starving people. I would much rather use switchgrass or wood chips or lawn trimmings to make methanol and burn that.

It's just another example of what Ibon calls the "overshoot conundrum". I really should celebrate the diversion of millions of tons of grains into US fuel tanks, as it hastens TEOTWAWKI in the rest of the World. But my heart melts when I see starving kids in refugee camps, who have already faced TEOTWAWKI in their homeland. Yes, I know they are the real problem with the World, which is too many people, the one problem that underlies all other problems.

But they are starving human children.
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Re: What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' thr

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 08:31:01

KaiserJeep wrote:My own problem with the biofuels is that - at least in the case of the ethanols - they are making either human food or cattle/chicken food into fuels. I have an ethical problem doing this in a world with starving people. I would much rather use switchgrass or wood chips or lawn trimmings to make methanol and burn that.

It's just another example of what Ibon calls the "overshoot conundrum". I really should celebrate the diversion of millions of tons of grains into US fuel tanks, as it hastens TEOTWAWKI in the rest of the World. But my heart melts when I see starving kids in refugee camps, who have already faced TEOTWAWKI in their homeland. Yes, I know they are the real problem with the World, which is too many people, the one problem that underlies all other problems.

But they are starving human children.


Except cattle are not well adapted to a high grain diet, they are much healthier when allowed to graze naturally. There is also the fact that when you grind the corn kernels and allow the yeast to eat the starches you leave behind the protein of not only the grain but also the dead yeast which is high protein itself. In effect you are converting the high starch grain into high vegetable/yeast protein that is in its own fashion excellent feed for most livestock and pets. While it is true the total food calories is reduced by the extraction of the starch it is not zeroed out by a very long stretch, something like 40% of the caloric value exists in the combined spent brewers grain/yeast compound at the end of the process.

Of course using such a poor starch source as grain is stupid, but that is due to government policy encouraging growing maize instead of growing good ethanol crops like sweet potato, sugar beets and sugar cane which can be grown and produce much more abundant ethanol supply in the same areas where maize are grown in the north and rice is grown in the south.
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Re: What happened to the 'Mother of all Biofuels Debate' thr

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 10:05:17

But I just don't see an "except" there. If 40% of the calories remain, then 60% were converted to fuels via fermentation. The spent yeast and grain has always been used as animal feed, it never was wasted. Also, the corn has been specially developed to yield not only starch but high fructose syrup, which significantly boosts the alcohol production.

The other downside is that the high fructose corn syrup is so cheap that it is being added to almost all human packaged foods, because this causes it to taste better to people, increasing sales of such food. The downside is these syrup calories are empty of nutrition yet stimulate the appetite, and soaring rates of diabetes and obesity are the result.

Then the government piously tells you to eat healthy food, while pursuing the agriculture policies that produce the massive overabundance of grain and high fructose syrup.
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