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The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Re: The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby farmlad » Sun 06 Aug 2017, 14:47:04

Carbon sequestration is done so much more effeciently by biological processes then by machines and chemicals. Just eliminating the millions of hectares of prescribed burning of grassland and savanahs on this planet and instead treating those areas with prescribed high density grazings would sequester millions of tons of carbon every single year into those soils. This would start numerous beneficial processes such as increasing water infiltration and water holding capacity of these soils. It would reduce evaporation rates as well and so increase the amount of living organizims per hectare.

Pie in the sky? Not at all. There are now more than 1 million hectares being managed holistically. https://holisticmanagement.org/
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Re: The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 06 Aug 2017, 17:17:23

baha wrote:I like Biochar...it's simple, effective, and natural.

It is something I can do myself. All I have to do is start a fire in a bucket and then choke it out. Spread the biochar in the garden and it's a win/win scenario.

I've been meaning to try this but it's way down the list :) It would be a good way to get rid of old pallets, except for the nails. But I'm going to need a 55 gallon steel bucket. 200 gallon would be better :) I like big fires.

I am wondering how much it can be scaled up to really help with CO2
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Re: The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 06 Aug 2017, 23:00:08

sooo, farmguy prefers high intensity grazing to burning, yet bah wants biochar, which is what you get from burning...

do they care to duke it out?

as far as i've seen, the grazing folks have some fairly...dubious proponents.

but i'm all for turning over the plains to the bison and their natural predators, and maybe allow some Indian tribes to return to their ancient customs of culling bison once in a while. :)
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Re: The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 07 Aug 2017, 09:16:53

dohboi wrote:sooo, farmguy prefers high intensity grazing to burning, yet bah wants biochar, which is what you get from burning...

do they care to duke it out?

as far as i've seen, the grazing folks have some fairly...dubious proponents.

but i'm all for turning over the plains to the bison and their natural predators, and maybe allow some Indian tribes to return to their ancient customs of culling bison once in a while. :)


You are suffering a problem I have seen many people express. That is, you discount the science because you do not like the source. I strive to look at the science objectively to see if it is sound, because making decisions based on the politics of who promotes the science is just advocacy dressed up with buzz words to promote the thing you advocate.

I despise many of the hypocrites who jumped on the global warming bandwagon, but I get past that by looking at the science. Others should strive to do the same. I think plans to attempt geoengineering are a very bad idea because humans are too arrogant and the system far too complex to have success without many negative side effects that in my estimation have a great risk of exceeding the rewards.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 07 Aug 2017, 15:22:58

??

I was just pointing out that two poster proposed two approaches that seemed to contradict each other, yet they didn't seem to notice it. I was hoping they would unpack their arguments a bit more to see if they could be resolved.

It is true that Allan Savory's past includes some rather...unsavory episodes :) ...

But his 'science' is even worse : http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food ... _have.html

But maybe it is you who want so hard to believe things that confirm your own values that you dismiss actual scientific review of a sleezy promoters claims??

Here's the link to the scientific review, in case you had any trouble finding it in that article:

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index ... 1560/10833

The take away:

Our review of findings from African studies on short-duration grazing including the "Charter Trials" shows a very high similarity to those from North America sum-marized by Holechek et al. (2000).

We could find no definite evidence in the African studies that short-duration grazing involving 5 or more paddocks will accelerate plant succession compared to more simple grazing systems...


If you think that everyone else is blinded by prejudice, but you alone of all humanity seem to have escaped its clutches, please see my comment on your statement in the other thread.
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Re: The Geoengineering Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 20:00:26

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 87806.html

Future technology ‘cannot rescue’ mankind from climate change, say experts
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Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 13:15:08

Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?
By The Editors of IEEE Spectrum
Do you believe that climate change is a vast left-wing conspiracy that does little more than create jobs for scientists while crippling businesses with pointless regulation? Or, quite the contrary, are you convinced that climate change is the biggest crisis confronting the planet, uniquely capable of wreaking havoc on a scale not seen in recorded history?

Many of you are probably in one camp or the other. No doubt some of you will tell us how disappointed/angry/outraged you are that we (a) gave credence to this nonsense or (b) failed to convey the true urgency of the situation. We welcome your thoughts.

In crafting this issue, we steered clear of attempting to change hearts and minds. Your views on climate change aren’t likely to be altered by a magazine article, or even two dozen magazine articles. Rather, this issue grew out of a few simple observations. One is that massive R&D programs are now under way all over the world to develop and deploy the technologies and infrastructures that will help reduce emissions of greenhouse gases. Governments, corporations, philanthropies, and universities are spending billions of dollars on these efforts. Is this money being spent wisely?

That question brings us to the next observation: The magnitude of the challenge is eye-poppingly huge. In 2009, representatives of industrialized nations met in Copenhagen and agreed on the advisability of preventing global average temperatures from rising more than 2 °C above their preindustrial levels. In 2014, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (1) declared that doing so would require cutting greenhouse gas emissions 40 to 70 percent from 2010 levels by midcentury. These targets then guided the Paris Agreement (2), in 2015.

Even before Paris, Bill Gates had declared his belief that only a series of “energy miracles” could make meaningful progress in reducing greenhouse gases (3).

That got us thinking: What might those “miracles” be? If they were going to enable substantial cuts within a couple of decades, they would have to be in laboratories now.

So we started looking around for these miracles. We focused on three of the largest greenhouse-gas-emitting categories: electricity, transportation, and food and agriculture. We considered dozens of promising projects and programs. Eventually we settled on the 10 projects described in this issue (and two others covered on our website).

We picked most of these projects because they seemed to hold unusual promise relative to the attention they were getting. And we threw in a couple for, well, the opposite reason. Our reporters went to see these activities firsthand, fanning out to sites in Japan; Iceland; Hungary; Germany; the Netherlands; Columbus, N.M.; Schenectady, N.Y.; LaPorte, Texas; Cambridge, Mass.; and Bellevue, Wash. They trooped up and down vertical farms. They flew in electric airplanes. They viewed entirely new microorganisms—genetically engineered with the help of robots—growing in shiny steel fermentation chambers. An algae-growing tank burbled quietly in our mid-Manhattan offices, sprouting the makings for a green-breakfast taste test.

After six months, we had soaked up some of the best thinking on the use of tech to cut carbon emissions. But what did it all suggest collectively? Could these projects, and others like them, make a real difference? We put these questions to our columnist Vaclav Smil, a renowned energy economist, who responded with an essay (4). Without stealing Smil’s thunder, let’s just say that they don’t call them “miracles” for nothing.


The entire June 2018 issue: https://spectrum.ieee.org/
References:
(1) http://www.climatecentral.org/news/major-greenhouse-gas-reductions-needed-to-curtail-climate-change-ipcc-17300
(2) https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/09/what-is-the-paris-agreement-on-climate-change/
(3) https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/Energy-Miracles
(4) https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environment/a-critical-look-at-claims-for-green-technologies
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Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
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Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 15:47:02

pstarr wrote:Short answer: no

Nice to see that as usual, you provide a thoughtful answer, backed by facts, logic, good citations, etc. /s

The average 9 year old is far more insightful.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 16:03:02

christianlouslange1.jpg
These appeals to technology always make me pause and think:
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Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 16:12:29

Thanks a lot for posting this KJ.

Lots to go through and will take some time, of course.

But I really like the agnostic approach of the article re AGW, and just looking at the tech re costs and practicality.

Some fascinating ideas, and it's good to see that older ideas like vertical indoor farming are still being improved upon..
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 18:42:47

pstarr wrote:Given that oil is free, we have almost forever, and money is created out of nothing, there is little to prevent us instituting a world-wide carbon sequestration program powered by 4th Gen hemp biodiesel. An unicorn poop, via thermodepolymerization. Or we could go with fusion? I don't know? Who does

Pstarr, why so pessimistic having you heard algae and seaweed will solve ALL our problems LMAO :lol:
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Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 07:31:48

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
pstarr wrote:Short answer: no

Nice to see that as usual, you provide a thoughtful answer, backed by facts, logic, good citations, etc. /s

The average 9 year old is far more insightful.


Unfortunately we collectively act as 9 year olds. So it is extreamely unlikely we will do anything helpful.
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Re: Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 12:28:03

Newfie - Exactly. Engineers can come up with lots of workable ideas. Such as the most obvious: drastically reduce the amount of fossil fuels burned by consumers. What can be done isn't relevant: what govts/societies are willing to do is.
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