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Jordan: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Oil Shale

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 15:09:37

Carlhole wrote:My point of view is the same as M. King Hubbert's, for chrissakes (see above).
M. King Hubbert knew better than to promote shale oil.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 15:11:59

pstarr wrote:
EnergyUnlimited wrote:Pstarr,
You are debating a troll.
Yes. I know. It is fun. And productive. It hones my skills for bigger fish to fry.

There are few much more intelligent trolls here.
This one is mainly presenting ad hominem arguments.
However, I don't believe Carlhole engages in this nonsense for money, as he doesn't appear to have a particular financial agenda; for instance like Lorenz another cornucopian who actively and exclusively promoted the biofuels industry.

Carlhole seems honest here, so you are certainly right.
Lorenzo however was far more intelligent and knowledgeable.
Rather Carlhole appears to be motivated by a general sense of frustration born out of denial of his/our coming demise.

I agree.
He is emotionally invested in Cornucopia.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 15:14:03

pstarr wrote:Don't you ever learn, Cornhole?


I learned all I need to know from M. King Hubbert.

Nuclear Energy and Fossil Fuels

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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 15:28:13

Carlhole wrote:
pstarr wrote:Don't you ever learn, Cornhole?


I learned all I need to know from M. King Hubbert.

Nuclear Energy and Fossil Fuels

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To paraphrase you moron, this thread is about shale oil not nukes, and only recently and parenthetically has become more about your unhinged condition. You are trolling your own post. I have said this a billion times but you do not listen. Get up from the computer, wipe down the keyboard, take a walk and start fresh.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 15:33:07

pstarr wrote:I have said this a billion times but you do not listen...


And I have said a billion times that petroleum need last only long enough for nuclear energy to take over. And M. King Hubbert agrees with me.

The point of this thread is that huge fossil fuel finds continue to be developed, providing price moderating price pressure. And this moderating price pressure will continue indefinitely - until thousands of nukes take over the heavy lift, at which time the filthiest fossil fuels will be abandoned.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 15:39:47

Carlhole wrote:
pstarr wrote:I have said this a billion times but you do not listen...


And I have said a billion times that petroleum need last only long enough for nuclear energy to take over. And M. King Hubbert agrees with me.
Shale oil is not petroleum. It is kerogen.

And you have yet to show how nuclear energy will contribute to ongoing petroleum deficits. You have yet to do the hard work and explain specifically how a industrial world run on liquid petroleum and dependent on long-haul diesel trucks and trains, bunker-oil cargo ships, and ICE commuter cars would operate on electricity. You failed to do the hard work and explain where the money, political will, industrial capacity, and distribution infrastructure would come from to make this momentous change. ALL YOU DO IS WHINE AND COMPLAIN THAT SOMEONE, MAYBE THE SINGULARITY, WILL TAKE CARE OF THE DETAILS. Well Cornie the details are going to take care of you and me and it won't be pretty.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 18:04:49

pstarr wrote:And you have yet to show how nuclear energy will contribute to ongoing petroleum deficits.


M. King Hubbert explained it.

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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby Vogelzang » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 19:42:17

Keep hurting pisser. He's deserves all the pain you can give him.
Politics is why we aren't producing our own oil shale.

http://www.sciliterature.50webs.com/OilShaleLinks.htm

Vote Republican (I hope I hurt pisser again).
The Democratic Party has opposed ANWR exploration, coal-to-liquids technology, oil shale exploration, outer continental shelf (OCS) exploration and increasing refinery capacity
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/ ... 020696.php

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/news/ec ... 2008060614
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby efarmer » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 19:49:28

AIn't that somethin'. A man who beat his own pisser to death wants another one to get hurt.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 19:53:32

Jordon's shale oil is no more petroleum than baked potatoes. While it is true that the stuff contains carbon and hydrogen (like a vegetable) in a similar proportion to fossil fuels, the nature of the long chains is such that it does not flow at surface temperatures and is not useful without hydrogenation and pyrolysis. The energy cost to pretreat the stuff renders shale oil's no more useful for ICE's than yard waste, dead bodies, or day-old bread.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 19:55:04

efarmer wrote:AIn't that somethin'. A man who beat his own pisser to death wants another one to get hurt.
Vogel is a drive-by troll. He appears and just as quickly exits, like a morning crap. :-D
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby ian807 » Sun 03 Oct 2010, 20:09:45

In an ideal world, we could replace oil with nuclear power (assuming our battery technology improves), but in the real world, I'm pretty sure a combination of:

1) lack of preparation
2) technical complexity
3) economics

kills off the oil industry even while there's still oil in the ground.

Right now both oil demand and pricing are pretty elastic. As demand grows and more people worldwide expect to eat and work farther than walking distance from home, this won't be the case and oil prices will spiral upward.

The bad part of this is that when demand is inelastic, high oil prices start to feed on themselves. That is, high oil prices increase the price of everything else, including the price of producing petroleum, which increases the price of petroleum, which makes producing petroleum more expensive, which.... You get the picture. Recursive functions of this nature start out slow, but increase rapidly.

Worse, sudden price spikes will disrupt the supply chains of almost every industry, and how many industries today don't depend on four or five other industries to function (Ask a farmer). Disrupt enough, often enough, and it will be quite a while before our interdependent systems recover enough to make the not-so-small small miracles like cell phones, computers or plastic wrapped spinach grown in California.

Eventually, the economy collapses, and recovers, and we do this three or four more times before we're done with oil as anything but one more expensive, intermittently available power source.

Had we prepared ourselves by getting the transportation sector off hydrocarbons, or put more emphasis on battery technology, we might have been able to head this off, but I think it's just too late now. We'll just have to go through a protracted period of adjustment. I expect this adjustment will involve a lot of starving people at point. Unpleasant, but unavoidable.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 04 Oct 2010, 00:05:48

ian807 wrote:Worse, sudden price spikes will disrupt the supply chains of almost every industry...

The point of the thread is that the worlds oil shale deposits are such a huge undeveloped resource their development would amount to significant downward price pressure on overall petroleum prices. There are just too many fossil fuel energy options yet available to exploit. And really, since we want to phase out carbon intensive energy (such as oil shale, coal, etc.), these resources only have to last for as long as it takes to develop clean nuclear energy as per M. King Hubbert.

OIL SHALE ENERGETICS IN ESTONIA (pdf, '07)

Oil shale is not a new discovery for the world. Similar to coal, it can be used directly as a fuel. The role of oil shale in the energy production is unknown to most people because its contribution to today’s world energy budget is minimal compared to such common known resources like petroleum and coal. However, the high price and declining petroleum supplies as well as rapidly increasing demand from the third world countries, is the reason why more frequent discussions about broader usage of oil shale are rising.

A huge and almost unused resource
Estimates of recoverable oil resources in the Earths crust amount to 160–170 billion tons. Considering the present annual output of 4 billion tons the explored resources can supply our needs for approximately 40 years.

Although information about many oil shale deposits is scarce, the potential world resources of shale oil are huge. Estimates of the volume of potential oil in the world oil shale deposits range from 530 to 1430 billion tons (Fig. 1). This is 3–9 times as much as the current proved oil reserves on the earth.

Estonia’s unique experience
There is no other country in the world that can meet almost 80% of its electric power needs from oil shale. Most of the oil shale mined in Estonia today is utilized as a feedstock for production of energy. Approximately 20% of the shales are used for fuel oil production and chemical manufacturing.

Eesti Energia AS (Estonian Energy) with its 500 000 customers and more than 8000 employees is the leading Baltic energy utility as well as one of the biggest companies in Estonia. Eesti Energia generates 95% of electric power produced in Estonia and has a yearly shale oil production of approx 130 thousand tons (Fig. 2).

The advantages of shale oil over heavy fuel oils are lower setting point, and lower content of sulphur and mechanical impurities, its low content of heavy metals, and the absence of vanadium. It is mostly used as fuel in both large and small boilers. The production of the Oil Factory amounted to 130,000 tons of shale oil in 2006.

The higher global prices of oil products in past years suggest that shale oil production will be increasingly profitable, and therefore a project for increasing the yearly production from 130,000 tons to 500,000 tons of shale oil is in progress. The plan is to expand shale oil production by erecting two new TSK 140 facilities as well as upgrading the current oil to a higher quality product. Of course the success of mentioned developments is very much dependent on the oil price of the world markets.

Wiki - Oil Shale Industry

A critical measure of the viability of oil shale as an energy source lies in the ratio of the energy produced from oil shale to the energy used in its mining and processing, a ratio known as "Energy Returned on Energy Invested" (EROEI). A 1984 study estimated the EROEI of the various known oil shale deposits as varying between 0.7–13.3[45] although known oil shale extraction development projects assert an EROI between 3 to 10.

With higher petroleum prices, oil shale is economical. The Eesti Energia company assured the Jordanian leaders that development of the country's huge shale deposits was economical at $65/barrel. This is a huge price moderating pressure on overall oil supplies, since shale deposits are enormous in other countries as well.

Apparently, there have been advances in shale-to-oil technologies that require less water use than in earlier times. Eesti Energia uses proven state-of-the-art oil shale technology and this is what has sold the Jordanians on EE's plans to develop that country's resources.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Oct 2010, 00:46:56

There is nothing new about Jordanian oil shale:
wiki wrote:Although oil shale was utilized in northern Jordan prior to and during World War I, intensive exploration and studies of Jordan's oil shale resource potential started in the 1970s and 1980s, being motivated by higher oil prices, modern technology and better economic potential. As of 2008, no oil shale industry exists in Jordan, but several companies are considering both shale oil extraction and oil shale combustion for thermal power generation.[4]
There still is no shale oil industry in Jordon, in spite of the greatest run up in petroleum prices ever. Here it is almost 2011 and still there is no oil shale industry in Jordon. But they are working on it.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Oct 2010, 00:57:35

Carlhole wrote:Approximately 20% of the shales are used for fuel oil production and chemical manufacturing.

Eesti Energia AS (Estonian Energy) with its 500 000 customers and more than 8000 employees is the leading Baltic energy utility as well as one of the biggest companies in Estonia. Eesti Energia generates 95% of electric power produced in Estonia and has a yearly shale oil production of approx 130 thousand tons (Fig. 2).
So 130,000 tons (approximately 800,000 barrels of shale "oil") are produced in Estonia every year. Of which 20% or 160,000 barrels is actually used as "fuel oil" . . . and chemical manufacturing (The rest, the less quality stuff, I assume is used to bake potatoes in their masonry stoves. :razz: ) That <160,000 barrels of "fuel oil" probably heat their dachas.

I assume not of it powers automobiles.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 04 Oct 2010, 00:59:39

[quote="pstarr"]There still is no shale oil industry in Jordon, in spite of the greatest run up in petroleum prices ever. Here it is almost 2011 and still there is no oil shale industry in Jordon. But they are working on it.

Duh. How long has it been since the end of cheap oil? Nine or ten years? If oil were still as cheap as $10 or $20 a barrel, no one would be talking about oil shale or anything else for that matter. When was the agreement with Jordan signed? Like yesterday or something?

It will take Eesti Energia 7 years to start producing from the Jordanian deposits.
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Re: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Jordan's Oil Sh

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 04 Oct 2010, 01:21:12

Carlhole wrote:Duh. How long has it been since the end of cheap oil? Nine or ten years? If oil were still as cheap as $10 or $20 a barrel, no one would be talking about oil shale or anything else for that matter. When was the agreement with Jordan signed? Like yesterday or something?

It will take Eesti Energia 7 years to start producing from the Jordanian deposits.
Producing what? Did you real your article? Duh. It's bunker oil. It's used in boilers. To heat public baths and Lithuanian whore houses.
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Re: Jordan: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Oil Sha

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 17:17:20

Compared to neighboring countries that enjoy huge conventional oil and gas reserves, Jordan imports virtually all its requirement for liquid hydrocarbons. While the country is poor in term of traditional resources, Jordan enjoys significant reserves of oil shale, which underlie more than 70% of Jordanian territory.

The total resources amount to 31 billion tons of shale oil, which places Jordan among the top 10 largest oil shale holder in the world. Globally, there are 2.5 trillion to 3 trillion proven extractable shale oil resources– more than double the world’s recoverable conventional crude oil reserves.

Though Jordan has one of the largest shale resources in the world and although previous attempts to harness this energy source have been made in Jordan, none have resulted in large scale production of energy from oil shale; but due to the high local consumption which set to exceed 100,000 barrels per day according to data of energy ministry, Jordanian government has set an ambitious plan to tackle its oil shale reserves.

According to the National Energy Strategy, covering Jordan's energy requirements from 2007 to 2020, the Kingdom needs to increase its energy supply security and reduce its dependence on external energy sources by leveraging national resources such as renewable energies and oil shale. The energy strategy aims to increase the contribution of local energy sources to 39% by 2020 while reducing foreign sources from their current level of 96% to 61%.

Developing Jordan’s indigenous oil shale resources is an important part of the national energy strategy, where it considers both shale oil extraction and oil shale combustion for thermal power generation.

Jordan's most significant oil shale deposits are to be found in 26 different locations around the country, with the eight most important deposits located in the west-central region of the Kingdom. In addition to the west-central deposits, another important deposit is the Yarmouk deposit (where shale oil was first used in Jordan) located near the Kingdom's northern border, while a third shale oil region lies in the Ma'an district in southern Jordan.

El Lajjun oil shale deposit is the best known oil shale deposit in Jordan, but because of environmental concerns due to shallow ground water levels, exploitation of this deposit is environmentally not acceptable.

The Natural Resources Authority (NRA) has done extensive geological studies to delineate the oil shale reserves; in addition, the Government of Jordan commissioned different foreign governmental institutes and companies for technical assistance in order to study, test and exploit oil shale for power generation and crude oil production.

To speed up the process, the government of Jordan signed four memorandums of understanding for above-ground processing of oil shale and one memorandum for in-situ conversion processing.

Estonian energy company Eesti Energia signed a memorandum of understanding in November 2006 with the exclusive right to study about one third of the resources of El Lajjun oil shale deposit. Jordan Oil Shale Energy Company, a subsidiary of Eesti Energia, was established with capacity of 36,000 barrels per day. The oil shale plant uses an Enefit processing technology, with concession agreement signed on 11 May 2010.

In March 2017, the Jordan Ministry of Environment has approved a $2.1 billion project to build the first oil shale-fired power plant in the country with a capacity of 500 MW. The project will be owned and operated by the Jordan Estonian joint venture Enefit Jordan through its purposely created subsidiary Attarat Power Company (APCO).

In addition, in August 2009, Jordanian Ministry of Energy and Mineral Resources signed a concession agreement with Jordan Oil Shale Company B.V (JOSCO) which is owned by Shell, granting JOSCo exclusivity for deep oil shale exploration covering an area of 22,270 sq km throughout the Kingdom. The exploration area will be narrowed down on three phases to finally reach 1,000 sq km for commercial purposes. JOSCO will use Shells’ unique technique for Oil Shale extraction "the In-Situ Conversion Process (ICP)" that converts oil shale reserves to crude oil via heating the reserves for years while still underground.

The ICP is different from conventional surface retorting methods and direct firing of oil shale for power generation, and is aimed at heating the oil shale by thermal conduction using a closely spaced array of horizontal heaters.

JOSCO’s completed in 2015 first ICP field test (Jordan Field Experiment, JFE) which aimed to validate JOSCO’s subsurface understanding of the ICP process. Following the JFE, further piloting is required in Jordan before a commercial project is envisioned, according to JOSCO. Once all phases have been achieved, a decision to proceed with a commercial project will be decided in the late 2020s.

Other oil shale exploitation contracts included a deal with Karak International Oil (KIO) signed in March 2011, covering an area of 33 sq km in Al-Lajjun area, using Canadian Technology ATP. It is expected that KIO will produce up to 50,000 bbl/d; in addition to a deal signed with Saudi Arabian Corporation for Oil Shale (SACOS) in April 2014 for shale oil production through surface retorting over an area of 11 sq km in Attarat area. SACOS will use the Russian Technology UTT3000. It is expected that SACOS will reach the production capacity of 30,000 bbl/d of oil.


https://www.epmag.com/jordan-develops-o ... 801#p=full
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Re: Jordan: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Oil Sha

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 17:27:42

Still no oil. But thanks for the bump Sub :)

Lots of important ground is covered in these few pages; net energy, petroleum chemistry and fractions. A good place for the newbie to cut the newbie's teeth and a another primer in . . . DOOM! :? :-D
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Re: Jordan: 500 Billion Barrels of Oil Equivalent in Oil Sha

Unread postby dissident » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 09:59:33

I am seeing a pattern from these quickened necro-posts. Lots of delusion about vast untapped oil resources that is simply not supported by reality.

I wonder what the real deal is with "shale oil" in Jordan.
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