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THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Re: THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 12:11:35

"Plutonium-239 emits alpha particles to become uranium-235. As an alpha emitter, plutonium-239 is not particularly dangerous as an external radiation source, but if it is ingested or breathed in as dust it is very dangerous and carcinogenic. It has been estimated that a pound (454 grams) of plutonium inhaled as plutonium oxide dust could give cancer to two million people.[6] However, ingested plutonium is by far less dangerous as only a tiny fraction is absorbed in gastrointestinal tract.[7][8] 800 mg would be unlikely to cause a major health risk as far as radiation is concerned.[6] As a heavy metal, plutonium is also toxic. See also Plutonium#Precautions."


I work with metal occasionally. I can't imagine inhaling metal dust, especially that of the heaviest metal there is. Metal dust falls down and stays down. Otherwise it is pretty harmless except as a heavy metal . . . along with many others such as chromium which is already everywhere.
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Re: THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 12:59:01

GHung wrote:
Tanada wrote:.....

Also a perfect stranger Can buy a winning lotto ticket and mail it to me so I can be a Lotto Winner. But the odds are very low and I am not going to base my life decisions on such low probability events. Your bones and liver are already saturated with naturally radioactive materials with a far higher emission rate than Plutonium 239. You don't have to love that fact, but it is a scientifically verified fact and wishing it away won't change it a single iota from being true.


"Your bones and liver are already saturated with naturally radioactive materials", that, as naturally-occurring materials, our bodies have adapted to dealing with over eons of evolution. As the article states, plutonium is a non-naturally-occurring element that has been in our environment for just a few generations. The same is true of many substances we've developed in our recent history. I neither claim these substances are damaging or relatively benign, but refuse to flippantly dismiss them as well, especially the ones which remain in our environment for millennia. But maybe you think things like the Superfund, spending billions to sequester these substances, and the many other things we do to try and protect future generations from the consequences of growth, are silly, reactionary responses. Either way, the lawyers love it.

I expect that, as is often the case, the consequences will be cumulative. Just another factor in our 'death by a thousand cuts' path.


That turns out not to be the case. The source of the particles or radiant energy is irrelevant, only the effects matter. It can be plutonium, carbon 14, potassium 40 or plain old sunshine, what matters is dose type, energy level and rate.

As for the theory of a thousand cuts look at it this way. If every day someone makes a 2 inch cut somewhere on your body that is skin deep you will live a very long time and slowly accumulate a great many tiny scars. On the other hand if someone makes 1000 two inch long cuts in your skin over a period of five hours you are most likely going to die before they finish the last cut. In the same way a low radiation rate source, like Plutonium, doses you a tiny bit over a long time, Iodine 131 on the other hand with its 8 day half-life hits you over and over again with tiny doses in very rapid fashion like your five hour session with the torturer.

In addition to that your cut a day has more than enough time to heal itself the same way the low dose constant radiation that is natural to your body heals.
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Re: THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby GHung » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 13:22:34

That process of healing, over and over again, increases the rate of cell division, which eventually increases the risks of abnormal cell division; AKA: cancer. This is why it has been determined important to monitor patients and radiology technicians' lifetime exposures. But if you want to get a CT scan every week, be my guest.

Yes, there are natural sources of radiation we are exposed to every day. That's why we have the rates of skin cancer we see. The skin healing itself, over and over again, year after year. Do you think ingesting tiny "suns" that may give your internals a little "sunburn", year after year, for the rest of your life, is any different? Radiation, in many forms, kills cells. Thats why we use it to try and kill cancer cells.

The body has limits to how many times normal cells can divide and provide more normal cells as replacements. You can call that 'healing', at least until abnormal cells are being produced.
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Re: THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 14:30:15

Nobody is disputing the statistical incidence of cancer and it's relation to radiation exposure. In fact, the death toll from the only fatal radiation exposures from commercial energy production (Chernobyl) was increased from the original figure of 31 (2 from explosion and 29 from fatal radiation exposure) to something on the close order of 50. The additional 19 fatalities represent an estimate of the fatalities that have and will occur from cancer, out of the more than 100 emergency responders that received treatment for radiation exposure syndrome, and displayed symptoms in the days following the reactor pile explosion. Note that fully half of those exposed to fatal and beyond fatal doses of radiation are alive today, although some have been treated for cancer.

Now the argument gets slightly technical. Of those at or near the Chernobyl graphite pile that received doses of radiation that are distinctly non-fatal, there possibly will be some additional fatalities, which can only be statistically evaluated in retrospect. Proponents of the original LNT (Linear No Threshold) model of radiation exposure would peg this number of fatalities at around 4000 (other figures exist). The actual measurements of additional cancers show that the rate of cancer is so similar in the low dose group that it is arguable whether this group differs in any way from the populace at large outside of Chernobyl. These findings in fact lend support to a new model of radiation exposure called "radiation hormesis". This model states that (as with chemical carcinogens) that there is a threshold for radiation exposure below which no harm is done, as the body repairs itself as fast as the damage occurs. The results from Chernobyl seem to confirm the radiation hormesis model, and the exposures from both Three Mile Island and Fukushima do as well, although those last two accidents are not as useful as Chernobyl because no actual fatalities happened.
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Re: THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby diemos » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 16:47:29

Sorry Tanada, I may be blasé about the Cs-137 contamination in food but fuel fleas scare the shit out of me. The radiation dose is concentrated in a very small area around the particle of fuel and can easily kill nearby cells through direct radiation dose as well as delivering significant dose to cells just a little farther away. They're nothing to take lightly.
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Re: THE Radiation / Radioactive Thread Pt. 2

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 20:25:21

diemos wrote:Sorry Tanada, I may be blasé about the Cs-137 contamination in food but fuel fleas scare the shit out of me. The radiation dose is concentrated in a very small area around the particle of fuel and can easily kill nearby cells through direct radiation dose as well as delivering significant dose to cells just a little farther away. They're nothing to take lightly.


Except that the only large contamination plume so far was Chernobyl, and nobody died of inhaled/injested particles, because even those brave firefighters who tried to extinguish a burning graphite pile reactor with water hoses had respirators. This type of reactor - without any pretense of a containment structure - was obsolete before the Russians built them, and the current generation BWR and PWR reactors don't fail anything like a graphite pile.

Nuclear fallout from bombs has Cesium and Strontium and Iodine radioactives but once again, this bears no relation to a reactor. Try to seperate bomb fallout effects from reactor accidents in your thinking.
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