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Bans on Internal Combustion Engines May Backfire

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Bans on Internal Combustion Engines May Backfire

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 14 Nov 2017, 10:01:10

SeaGypsy wrote:Banning things rarely if ever works. I can't think of an example of the successful banning of anything besides perhaps chlorofluorocarbons, for which viable replacements were already available, that still took decades.


I learned a long time ago that any legislation banning something or promising something more than 5 years or two election cycles down the road is nothing but talk. The Montreal accords on CFC's are an example in point, western industrial nations banned the CFC's and I am not sure how Australia reacted, but in the USA the big home A/C manufacturers moved their factories to Mexico where the ban did not go into effect for something like 15 years after it went into effect in the USA. In addition while new refrigerators and car cooling systems had to switch chemical refrigerants there was a lengthy 'Grandfather' window during which the banned CFC's were still allowed for purposes of recharging the older systems still in use in many places. Yes as of IIRC 2015 all factories world wide are supposed to be CFC free manufacturers but the Montreal Accords were signed in September 1987! Does anyone really believe we needed 28 years to switch from CFC's to less dangerous alternative chemicals?

So with all these governments jumping on the ICE ban wagon I see one of two things happening. Either Peak Oil starts to bit hard before the Ban goes into effect making it moot, or their turns out to be more available ICE fuel sources than most believe and the Ban gets repealed or amended to a further future date.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: Bans on Internal Combustion Engines May Backfire

Unread postby ralfy » Tue 14 Nov 2017, 21:39:29

baha wrote:
The premium is the batteries. In this case they store excess power going downhill and give it to the grid when the battery is full. An electric drivetrain is cheaper and simpler than an ICE.

This problem is caused when the cooling fan is attached to the output shaft. When the motor is turning very slow it can still produce full power, and take full current, but it doesn't keep itself cool. If you use a separate cooling system that keeps the motor cool no matter how fast it's turning...problem solved. Most of the EVs I've seen have water cooled motors. Also most EVs have one reduction gear that never shifts and no clutch.


As pointed out earlier, conveyor belts have been used in mining operations for years, but they still require ICE if there is a lack of electricity. Also, they make up only one part of mining operations, which require heavy machinery to allow for increasing economies of scale. Finally, the same operations face diminishing returns, which means whatever is used to replace ICE has to be not just better but scale up readily and quickly.

For the heat problem, a cooling system only adds more weight to the vehicle, which is expected to do the same work as ICEs (e.g., transport heavy loads across rough terrain, and with the same mileage given a lack of recharging points). In addition, not just better roads but more electric grids have to be set up. To ensure such for a global economy in the long run, at least one more planet's worth of resources will be needed.
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