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International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 02 Nov 2017, 14:19:30

Exactly, if we can't rapidly bring down the population levels of some of the highest per capita emitters like the US, Europe, and yes, now China, it will be a tough row to hoe.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 02 Nov 2017, 14:58:54

And if we can’t you are back to Tanadas point, adaptation.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 02 Nov 2017, 15:15:57

Oh, we need to start adapting fast. Really, we should have started when the science first became quite clear a couple decades ago (at least).

Too bad Trump axed O's plan to take into account GW and slr when considering development of infrastructure along the coast...we seem to be going in exactly the opposite direction from T's wise suggestions.

Humans can build structures to withstand all sorts of extremes. But right now codes are based on the average range of weather conditions over the last 100 years or so.

But of course, it will be a moving target. If/when we do adapt building codes to current conditions and the new likely ranges we can reasonably expect over the next few decades, we will have to do it all over again, when conditions overcome the limits of those codes. And then again, and again.

And given that we keep finding out that things are moving along faster than expected, it is very likely that we mostly won't be able to get ahead of the curve.

But under an administration that thinks the whole thing is a hoax, there is basically no chance that anything at all, however ultimately inadequate, will be done on a national level to prepare our buildings and other infrastructure even for the extremes we can be very certain are coming our way just in the next very few years, though perhaps some more enlightened local authorities may manage to do something. If anyone knows of such attempts or successes in particular states or cities, I'd be glad to know about them. (Lord knows we need to hear some remote glimmer of some, if not ecstatically happy, at least not-completely-grim news! :) :cry: )
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 02 Nov 2017, 19:16:37

2015StatesAtRisk_StateGrades_web.jpg
2015StatesAtRisk_StateGrades_web.jpg (147.35 KiB) Viewed 1871 times


Dohboi, found a neat graph at this link which shows the state of Preparedness of all the 50 States, graded from A to F
http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/m ... ate-change
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 02 Nov 2017, 20:32:59

Dohboi,
Leave your political baloney out of it. O was a climate change looser. I read his great “climate change “ speech in detail and it was more pro-fossil fuels than about climate change. Even Hansen said tha O “ didn’t get climate change.”

And we aren’t going to build our way out of climate change. Do you even read your own postings?

If climate change was all we had to concern ourselves with it alone, as you so frequently point out, will reduce Earths carring capacity significantly. But cc isn’t our only problem.

The adaptation our off spring will have to make is to figure out how to our compete other humans for decreasing resources in order to stay alive. You can take that on an individual scale or in a regional scale, if the region can work as a unit. We will have to adapt to an increasingly competitive and calorie poor world.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 02 Nov 2017, 20:53:04

I don't want to turn it into a political rant, and I too was very disappointed with most of what O did. (ETA: Actually, I wasn't all that disappointed, because he always looked to me like a corporate stooge at base, and it was likely only going to be essentially accidental if he happened to do anything truly significantly positive, as I saw it.)

But here was one thing that was at least the beginnings of adaptation, and it got demolished for no good reason.

I think it is the kneejerk pro-Trump types that are politicizing everything.

I will praise Trump for getting us out of TPP, and I will praise him if he does anything else equally praiseworthy, but so far I haven't seen much. I did and do criticize Obama for things he did, and actually rarely praised him.

So I would feel particularly strange if I never criticized this president as I did the last.

Is it now illegal on this blog to criticize this standing president ever?
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 03 Nov 2017, 08:44:44

Criticize away, where there is some actual connection.

There should be fertile ground for factual criticism.

What I’m tired of is adoration/hate. Two side of one coin.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 03 Nov 2017, 08:47:53

Dohboi,

Trying to leave politics out of it and talk about adaptations I think we are not seeing things in the same scale. Probably too big a subject for here, think I’ll start a thread.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 03 Nov 2017, 14:32:31

"What I’m tired of is adoration/hate. Two side of one coin."

Me, too. I haven't adored anyone for a long time...ahem...except my wife, of course!! (Who's looking over my shoulder right now) :? :oops: 8) :lol:
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 03 Nov 2017, 15:20:11

And to put an even harsher edge to your observation: no one is "negotiating" sh*t with anyone else. Articles titled like this one are just a dishonest illusion ---
Hear, hear for the Truth. Anybody who would paint Rockman as being totally tainted in these conversations because of his involvement in the Oil industry is just fishing. Bravo Rock. And the sad part is they get the gullible public at large to believe some progress is being done. I too have become convinced that we will continue burning FF until we cannot.. Period.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 03 Nov 2017, 15:58:43

...well...I guess I'm gone fishin' then! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 03 Nov 2017, 16:07:02

dohboi wrote:...well...I guess I'm gone fishin' then! :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol:
“"If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while counting your money"”
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 11 Nov 2017, 18:33:05

Gov. Jerry Brown is in Germany at the COP Climate Meeting to show his support for the Paris Accords. His speech to the COP meeting was disrupted by protesters demanding that Jerry Brown support restrictions on FF use and CO2 emissions.

california-gov-jerry-brown-to-protesters-during-climate-speech-lets-put-you-in-the-ground

Jerry Brown refused. When the protestors said they wanted oil kept in the ground, Jerry Brown said the protestors should be put in the ground. Really---thats what he said.

Then Jerry Brown said: "I wish we could have no pollution, but we have to have our automobiles"

There you have it. The Paris Accords are a sham and a fraud because they allow CO2 emissions to dramatically increase. Rs like Trump are a disgrace on the climate change issue, but Ds like Jerry Brown are no better. The Ds like to pretend they support action against climate change, but in reality they do nothing.

Cheers!

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"Il bel far niente"
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 11 Nov 2017, 19:11:13

The US, the EU, India, China----EVERYBODY is producing too much CO2 to keep the world below 2°C of warming as pledged in the Paris Accords

world-emissions-goals-far-off-course

Of course that is the inherent idiocy of the Paris Accords----by concentrating on setting an imaginary limit on global temperature increases instead of real limits on CO2 emissions, the Paris Accords accomplished nothing. CO2 emissions are still increasing, only now the increases are all OK according to the UN Paris Accords.

cheers!

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby M_B_S » Sun 12 Nov 2017, 07:52:21

Plantagenet wrote:The US, the EU, India, China----EVERYBODY is producing too much CO2 to keep the world below 2°C of warming as pledged in the Paris Accords

world-emissions-goals-far-off-course

Of course that is the inherent idiocy of the Paris Accords----by concentrating on setting an imaginary limit on global temperature increases instead of real limits on CO2 emissions, the Paris Accords accomplished nothing. CO2 emissions are still increasing, only now the increases are all OK according to the UN Paris Accords.

cheers!


Yes cheers !

Here in Germany Merkel fools the world and herself in Bonn again.

The new "Jamaica Koalition" is maybe a new green washed COAL -ition...
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 16 Nov 2017, 15:59:47

As you know, I am always on the lookout for cheery news! :-D :-D

I'll present this one to you all, then step back and let you rip it apart, you spoilsports :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... e-out-coal

‘Political watershed’ as 19 countries pledge to phase out coal

New alliance launched at Bonn climate talks hopes to signal the end of the dirtiest fossil fuel that kills 800,000 people a year with air pollution
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 16 Nov 2017, 16:13:51

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=1s&v=twkL0m3iKvc

Dr. James Hansen: 4 Reasons Why the Paris Agreement Won’t Solve Climate Change

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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 16 Nov 2017, 23:28:27

of course, cc is no longer a 'solvable' problem, so the headline could equally read "4 (or any number of) reasons why X won't solve cc" and whatever value you stuck in there for 'X,' the statement would still be true.
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Re: International Climate Negotiations Pt. 2 (merged)

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 17 Nov 2017, 12:43:22

dohboi wrote:As you know, I am always on the lookout for cheery news! :-D :-D

I'll present this one to you all, then step back and let you rip it apart, you spoilsports :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... e-out-coal

‘Political watershed’ as 19 countries pledge to phase out coal

New alliance launched at Bonn climate talks hopes to signal the end of the dirtiest fossil fuel that kills 800,000 people a year with air pollution


When you read the article the reality is underwhelming.

None of the 19 countries in the "alliance" actually use much coal---as some already use no coal at all.

None of the countries that actually burn a lot of coal, like China, India, Germany, the USA, etc. are in the alliance. Similary, major coal-producing countries like Australia refused to join the alliance.

IMHO Germany should win the hypocrite of the year award, because they are the largest consumers of low-grade "brown" coal in the world, and therefore one of the largest CO2 producers in the world. But here Germany is---hosting this UN COP meeting and pretending to a leader in the fight against global warming, You'd think Germany would make a special effort to be a leader in the fight against climate change but Germany turned their back on the new "anti-coal" alliance, even as it was being organized at "their" UN COP climate change meeting.

Image
Garzweiler-coal-mine-germany

Cheers!
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