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Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting More f

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting More f

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 29 Oct 2017, 08:29:38


A successful transition to a 21st Century Electricity System requires careful consideration of a range of issues that will ultimately redefine the regulatory framework and utility business model while creating new opportunities for third-party providers and customers to contribute to the operation of the electricity system. In this third in a series published by Utility Dive, AEE explores traditional and “pay for performance” approaches to energy efficiency (EE). Energy efficiency (EE), broadly defined, means using less energy to provide the same, or often superior, energy services. EE is most commonly thought of as technologies that reduce energy use relative to traditional technologies, such as LED lighting and high efficiency appliances and heating and cooling equipment. But today, EE also includes the use of sophisticated energy management systems, internet-connected thermostats, and data analytics. Many benefits come from EE technologies and practices, including cost savings for customers,



Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting More from Less
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 07 Nov 2017, 21:39:51

I remember hearing this same theory since at least 1979 when President Carter wore sweaters on TV and told everyone to turn down there thermostats in winter. Didn't work too well back then, and now I live in a relatively well insulated house with double pane windows with LED bulbs in all my light sockets. Not a whole lot more conserving I can do unless I move another family in here to increase the population density for utility ratio.
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby baha » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 07:58:16

Hey Sub,
Absolutely not true. Carter had the right idea but the public decided it would be more fun to build an unsustainable debt and then crash...whatever...

I expect you have seen my level of data analytics. It is central to planning and implementing a sustainable lifestyle. You may feel good about your LEDs but do you know how much difference it really made? I know when my power is available, where it comes from, and where it goes. As long as I live within my limits, TPTB can ESAD! (Eat Shit And Die) :)

I am developing the algorithms that will govern your future energy usage. I have to manually control many things right now. But in the future it could all be integrated and operate completely hands off. I wish my dishwasher could tell when the solar is cranking out power and turn itself on.
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 08:43:01

baha wrote: I wish my dishwasher could tell when the solar is cranking out power and turn itself on.

Sounds like a simple problem that just needs some wiring or wifi connections. A couple of if-than statements. If washer has been loaded and set to ready, then if solar array output exceeds x amps then run (the washer). :)
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:33:32

baha wrote:Hey Sub,
Absolutely not true. Carter had the right idea but the public decided it would be more fun to build an unsustainable debt and then crash...whatever...
I expect you have seen my level of data analytics. It is central to planning and implementing a sustainable lifestyle. You may feel good about your LEDs but do you know how much difference it really made? I know when my power is available, where it comes from, and where it goes. As long as I live within my limits, TPTB can ESAD! (Eat Shit And Die) :)

I am developing the algorithms that will govern your future energy usage. I have to manually control many things right now. But in the future it could all be integrated and operate completely hands off. I wish my dishwasher could tell when the solar is cranking out power and turn itself on.


So your response to my different xperience is to call me a liar? I suggest you review your debating technique because this appraoch causes me to scroll past the rest of your message without bothering to read it.
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:43:43

Subjectivist wrote:I remember hearing this same theory since at least 1979 when President Carter wore sweaters on TV and told everyone to turn down there thermostats in winter. Didn't work too well back then, and now I live in a relatively well insulated house with double pane windows with LED bulbs in all my light sockets.

Or, we could try having an attention span worthy of a human, instead of a gnat.

Conservation and efficiency, when applied industriously over time, have a HUGE cumulative impact. Like modern well insulated houses and LED bulbs today, compared to very poorly insulated houses and incandescent lighting technology of the 50's. Such changes take a lot of perseverance and occur over decades. But without the effort, will, and patience to realize the benefits of such changes (allowing incremental improvements to multiply over time to a huge cumulative result), we might get far less of them.

So should we pretend efficiency gains don't happen, just because they're not gigantic in the short term? Or that conservation of resources doesn't matter, just because it doesn't magically solve all problems in the short term? I don't think so.
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 13:32:16

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Subjectivist wrote:I remember hearing this same theory since at least 1979 when President Carter wore sweaters on TV and told everyone to turn down there thermostats in winter. Didn't work too well back then, and now I live in a relatively well insulated house with double pane windows with LED bulbs in all my light sockets.

Or, we could try having an attention span worthy of a human, instead of a gnat.

Conservation and efficiency, when applied industriously over time, have a HUGE cumulative impact. Like modern well insulated houses and LED bulbs today, compared to very poorly insulated houses and incandescent lighting technology of the 50's. Such changes take a lot of perseverance and occur over decades. But without the effort, will, and patience to realize the benefits of such changes (allowing incremental improvements to multiply over time to a huge cumulative result), we might get far less of them.

So should we pretend efficiency gains don't happen, just because they're not gigantic in the short term? Or that conservation of resources doesn't matter, just because it doesn't magically solve all problems in the short term? I don't think so.


You are making my point for me. Over the last 40 plus years we have been making energy efficiency improvements. It isn't 1977 any more, the low hanging fruit of efficiency improvements have already been done. The issue is, the greater your efficiency the less return on investment you get from improvements. Most furnaces sold today are 85% efficient or better. Upgrading from 55 to 75 is a huge improvement. Upgrading from 75 to 90 is a substantial improvement. Improving from 90 to 95 or 97 is much less of an improvement because the law of diminishing returns always holds true.

Same with lighting, switching out my incandescent bulbs to LED cut my energy use for lighting by about 85 percent. It is hard to get much more efficient than a source that gives me full spectrum light at even higher efficiency would be hard pressed to provide more efficiency at the cost of an LED or lower. Again the law of diminishing returns.

Additional insulation is also a great addition to a home, but the cost of added insulation vs the pay off time in lower winter heating bills also runs into the law of diminishing returns.

Point being, if you are building a brand new home with excellent insulation, high efficiency furnace and all LED lights where do you go for greater efficiency?
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Re: Energy Efficiency as a Resource: The Power of Getting Mo

Unread postby yellowcanoe » Wed 08 Nov 2017, 13:52:34

Subjectivist wrote:Additional insulation is also a great addition to a home, but the cost of added insulation vs the pay off time in lower winter heating bills also runs into the law of diminishing returns.

Point being, if you are building a brand new home with excellent insulation, high efficiency furnace and all LED lights where do you go for greater efficiency?


Once the law of diminishing returns kicks in, the only way to further reduce your energy consumption would be by reducing your standard of living, for example by living in a smaller house or a multi-unit building. I believe that is the direction we are heading, like it or not.
Last edited by Tanada on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 13:57:51, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed typo
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