[Ibon]

I offer the only courageous and honorable path for our species which is to turn back into the fold of mother nature by accepting the terms which will be set by the laws of ecology in respect to overshoot.

Some of you are reaching for the stars or religion. This is pure bullshit. The only pathway by which civilization is preserved is that we learn from the consequences and persevere as a result.

There is no technology fix of space colonies and no invisible man in space watching over us.

It is up to us, not our technology nor the deities we invent.

Resilience and perseverance will only be preserved through yielding to the correction.

Why do we resist so stubbornly the truth as it stands before us.

Checkmate in every direction except through yielding to the correction. Resistance leads only to a brutal die-off.

I am perhaps an early adopter. My position will become dominant and understood by future emerging generations.

Our strength as a species and our survival as a species requires the humility to yield.

[SeaGypsy]

Totally concur Ibon. In our personal lives we both know a heck of a lot of people who defer to the big guy in the sky as a matter of course. I'm aware of how their conversion originated- chiefs being garrotted on beaches with priests standing by blubbering in Latin. The whole thing is sick. The deference is a direct contradiction & abdication of personal responsibility to in any way affect change, as well as continuing insult to murdered ancestors & worship at the feet of their murderers.

[Whitefang]

I am all ears for less people on the planet, not by genocide or prepping the wrong way, kill others, at the cost of everything else.
Based on personal survival of you and you're loved ones, might be family or friends, or a pet, favourate plant.....
Ruthless? Yes, but not a bastard, just a lack of self pity.


Roll with the punches Ibon!

Yes, it is up tp us as individuals to oppose the forces of our lives.

repost, a personal tale, an experience:

Some time ago two religious persons that belong to a small group that thinks that they will be saved, spared by God allmighty, came to my door for a babble.
After they told their sales pitch I asked them what they have done for preps with that full knowledge and conviction of the coming apocalypse.

Absolutely nothing!!!!! For trust, faith and love in GOD is enough........
I wished them well and good luck, bon voyage.

Trouble with words is that they do not change anything besides making you feel elated, action speaks louder than words.......what matters is strategic action leading to personal power, freedom.

For one, you might not need to outrun a bear but you will have to be top of your class in physical shape, you will need mussle and guts when normal life as we know it is history. To go from modern to hunter gatherer lifestyle in a blink.
Handy to have gear/food stored in strategic places.
Ready to go.

Yeah....so they were right predicting the apocalypse, CC is the things that will undo modern life, mediëval life and make survivors into hunter gatherers.
A rebirth in the making.
No people, no country, no state, no religion will make it, they will end.
It is up to us individuals to make a difference.
To oppose the forces of our lives.
To store power, freedom.
With respect, sobriety and fear, to go for war, trust yourself.

[Cog]

My preference will always be to let nature dictate the rules rather than some collective group of humans who think they can choose those rules for me.

[Ibon]

It's not a cull, it's survival of the fittest.

This applies to cultures as it does to individuals. Cultural orientations that do not yield to integrative relationship with mother earth will not survive and will be "culled" by selection pressures from growing constraints. At the moment these selective pressures are starting to seriously nibble around the edges of our unsustainable and mal adaptive ideologies and cultural orientations. As this deepens cultures will adapt or perish.

We can be brought back into the fold of a balanced ecological relationship with our mother earth kicking and screaming or through intelligent choices. It should be no surprise that in these early days the kicking and screaming dominates, that we reach for space colonies and invisible deities. That we start to form In Groups and Out groups, that before we pull together we split apart at the seams.

The fabric of our civilization will be torn as it must because to stitch together new cultural orientations the old ones have to fail.

Everyone wants someone to come take care of them.

I get the image in my mind that our current crop of humanity resembles a toddler with a diaper full of shit crying to be changed. The toddler is smart enough to recognize that the shit stinks and is nasty but not smart enough still to not soil his pants and use a toilet. He screams for mommy to change his diaper. Screams for space colonies. Screams for a god to save him.

I guess the best course of action for the moment is just to let that toddler stew in his crap for awhile until it really becomes unbearable.

[KaiserJeep]

Here you all sit, the fortunate and priviledged citizens of the largest and most advanced technological civilization that has ever existed, and you have no appreciation for it.

"Mother Earth" is total and complete BS. You would replace the old man with a beard sitting on a cloud with a young, black, pregnant woman, sitting on a cloud. Yes, I understand what you mean by this, I understand that you all feel spiritual, but she does not exist, Chaos theory rules nature, the planet does not have any consciousness, and you are not the brain cells of a huge planetary organism.

Because to embrace such a religion is to embrace death, for the planetary ecosystem as well as the current dominant species. Most of the Kudzu Apes already have religions, and they are nothing like yours, and for every one of you, there are ten Muslims lusting after their promised share of virginal houris, and an odd half-dozen Christians practicing with automatic weapons in Idaho, awaiting the Rapture (and thinking they only have to slaughter a few dozen people before they get to their own version of Heaven).

MANY religions have extolled the collective living world as a diety over the period of recorded history. Minority religions, you understand, because such religions eventually lead their followers to suicide - for the good of the planetary diety.

Your overall desires do you credit but your particular desire to worship something greater than yourself is the same plaintive "I'll never figure out how things work, so I'm going to quit trying and take comfort from my faith". It is step one in embracing your own death.

From a pragmatic perspective Gaia worship has not got any chance whatsoever, because it is merely the manifestation of a fortunate primate with enough stuff to consume that all his needs are met and he has idle time for thoughts about a planetary intelligence. But this hopefull and helpfull religion is ultimately as meaningless as all other faiths, until you have convinced the majority of the other 7.5 billions that yours is the one true faith. Because until you do that, they will reach out with fire and gunfire and nuclear weapons to exterminate you and everything around you for your arrogance in believing in something that is not the one true path which is the one they are on.

YOU only have the luxury of worshiping a planetary diety because of the collective efforts of billions of humans in the Industrial Revolution. This is the time in recorded history when their exists a huge number of educated and idle minds, more than at any time in the past. There is a huge embodied FF energy and most of the easily accessible minerals and millions of hours of human labor underlying your idle comforts and Gaia did not have anything to do with any of it, the Kudzu Apes on their world-consuming population growth spurt did it all.

Now a few of you think that your false spirituality and your pious words about a living planet mean that you can give up the struggle, and feel good about yourselves. There is the proverbial Snowball's Chance in Hell that you can convince the majority of 7.5 billion humans to follow your new/old religion, which like all religions will fail, because this ball of dirt floating in space doesn't even have the smarts to know that you are worshiping it/him/her/them.

I mean really, I thought we were having a conversation about important things, such as how we save the human race and both preserve our body of knowledge - which presently mostly involves one rather large space habitat called Earth - and add to it knowledge and practical experience of many other habitats, most of which will be smaller and less elaborate, eventually hosting trillions of humans in millions of diverse places.

When that happens, I still don't see the point of worshipping the place you live on or in. It may not be as apparent to the most of you as it is to me, that the human race is fundamentally different from all the others, or that we have transformed the place we live on with technology. To understand that yet again, ride in a jet airliner at night:

If you are among the fortunate few to have access to space, another perspective:

[Revi]

Back to the topic. I don't think they are really intending to cull 90% of the world's population, but if those 90% can't make any money for them, as will happen with artificial intelligence, they may not support those people. They are taking about a trillion out of the medicare and medicaid programs. That might start the process...

[AdamB]

Why not just not screw up our perfectly good planet in the first place?

We've already made a decision about that.

[KaiserJeep]

Well, we didn't really "make a decision". Humans act collectively and not with Divine purpose (and I allow for the possibility even if I personally don't believe in it). Their behaviors are the result of ape instincts, and elaborate customs/cultures. The label we applied to the set of behaviors that relate to Economics is called "Capitalism".

It so happens that because of technological success and advances in medicine, the world of today contains a large number of excess humans. The problem is self-correcting, as the number of tax paying Middle Class humans dwindles, taxes will be increased on the remainder. This process will continue and it will accelerate the destruction of the obsolete laboring class. Today's approximate 25% unemployment will become tomorrow's 75% unemployment. The ancient recipe of "bread and circus" will be used to control the excess humans.

Corporate farms, eventually virtually all but completely mechanized and automated, will produce efficiently packaged and sweetened foods that reduce spoilage to a minimum. The excess and idle citizens will be fed via an electronic account refferred to BMI (basic minimum income). That account can be supplemented by additional income if such citizens have usefull/marketable skills. Full elimination of the laboring class is expected to take a century.

The "circus" part of the plan involves the NFL, NASCAR, World Cup Soccer, the Olympics, and online video games. All citizens will remain connected to and their reality will be shaped by the information network. As such people age into a condition where thinking and actual activity dwindle, they will be parked in front of video screens with a remote in their hands, until their minds disintegrate and we can have a funeral.

Silly humans, the assimilation process began two decades ago, and is mostly complete.

[Newfie]

Yes we did make a decision, all the information needed has been know for a long time.

To say otherwise is just to deny our culpability.

[Whitefang]

Here you all sit, the fortunate and priviledged citizens of the largest and most advanced technological civilization that has ever existed, and you have no appreciation for it.

Yes we are still the priviledged slaves using more and more complex machines.
Bummer that all that is no help with any goal or spiritual growth, we are merely walking a dead end, nobody is going anywhere.
All those machines do not make us happy, instead bored from indulgence.
We are running around in a manageable heap of nonsense.

That counts for all of humanity in the throws of thinking, an internal dialogue that gives you the impression of the world we speak of, a description that can be changed into all those other worlds that can be perceived, part of our natural heritage, our makeup beyond that of kudzu ape.

Nobody wants to be free, it is much more cozy and comfy to keep you're dialogue fixed on place of self pity. Endless me, me,me.
What I am saying is that you talk to yourself what you are, feel and do, keep the same dialogue that dictates you're actions, same choices till you die.
That is the Jihad, war against yourself, an internal struggle.

The place of self pity is thought hiding behind hatred, fear, ambition...........you name it, this really is a prisonplanet alike that Matrix.
We need this base though to keep our physical body alive.
But the thing to aim for is your spirit, true mind and life.
Only way to get there is to store energy and shut up.
If we had plenty time or be immortal it would not matter to keep our importance, petty self pity and indulgence.

See, it is a personal world so one can only improve your situation by personal action, experience to do the right thing, be impeccable, the right use of energy.
How to get the most bang from you're buck.

I am interested to keep our knowledge save, how to survive this Earth and life that depends upon it, organic and inorganic.
Everybody knows better, we are not that stupid, we just act like idiots.
Allright, no more rants on this, what's the use?
I'll write a funny story someday ok?

Sorry, just trying to find the right words for myself, just for fun, not for being understood or make others understand. Just sharing feelings I guess like we all do in this wacky place.
I'll try and do better next time.
Not on culling globalists and Mr Jones.

[AdamB]

Well, we didn't really "make a decision". Humans act collectively and not with Divine purpose (and I allow for the possibility even if I personally don't believe in it).

I didn't say anything about divine purpose. But we DID make a decision, collectively. Even if that decision was inaction, delay, dither, dally, and debate....but we DID make a decision....to burn, chop down, dig up, drill, pollute and expand across the globe.

Our collective actions speak to that decision every day we continue to, collectively, burn, chop down, dig up, drill and pollute.

We can talk, hope, dream, plan, wish upon a star or hope for the big voice from the sky to tell us what to do, but until any of those change THIS:



it looks like we are choosing adaptation as our plan.

Grandma always said, watch what they do because what they say isn't required to be true. So I'm watching what we do, and so far, it screams adaptation as our choice.

[KaiserJeep]

The flip side of increasing the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, is enhanced plant growth on land and oceans.

The warming might be natural, might be manmade, most likely both. It is an interesting discussion just how much of each type of warming contributes to the total. I believe it is virtually all natural, and the AGW fanboys would have you believe that it is mostly manmade, because that alternative fosters a warm and fuzzy "all we have to do is stop burning FF's and we will have saved ourselves" attitude. Then they get to shriek and moan and act like prima donnas and drama queens because humans largely don't and won't abandon FF's. It's tiresome, and also one of the best examples of a psychological phenomenon called "groupthink" - except for a few Forum members like me, whom they label "deniers", which is one of the most ancient internet memes, associate somebody with the Nazi's, and they'll go away and quit pucturing your idea balloons.

For all of the supposed scientific expertise areound here, few can see the forest, because of all those trees in the way. Because you understand, scientists are not allowed to have common sense. It is an anathema to their supposed scientific thought. The problem being, they are not drones, and even they are reproducing.

[dohboi]

https://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food.htm

[AdamB]

The flip side of increasing the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, is enhanced plant growth on land and oceans.

Cool! Happy plants!

I just used atmospheric CO2 as evidence of something we are choosing to do, wherever that might lead. Denier is such a nasty term, as it exists today it really only means "you don't nod vigorously when I say whatever I want therefore you must be...A DENIER!".

Never been much of a fan of science by consensus, but even saying that nowadays is likely to draw the dreaded labeling out.

[KaiserJeep]

dohboi and all you other AGW fanboys: It does not matter whether you are right about this climate thing or not. It's a moot point.

So dance up and down, shriek some more, apply labels to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

We don't need that to confirm our opinion of you and your "science".

Meanwhile, in spite of nuts like you, we will burn every accessible drop of oil, every lump of coal, and every cube of gas. Meanwhile, somebody needs to start mining those methane clathrates so we can burn those too.

If it bothers you, just own two air conditioners.