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Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby Cog » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 05:57:16

Get off the planet and go where exactly? There is no place in the solar system to go to that is less hostile to human life. The most dangerous place on earth is less dangerous than any of the planets in our solar system. Mars is a very marginal location and could only sustain life with a completely enclosed and controlled biosphere. We could do that on earth must easier. Unless you have warp drive plans stuck away in your back pocket we are stuck here. Most likely forever.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 07:35:47

You only need technology to get a few hundred people off the planet. We have the technology of space travel already. Nor is this about saving billions, nor even millions, it's about saving the human species, by getting a genetically diverse set of humans - plus their food and animal species at least - into space. We have discussed it in multiple threads already.

Frankly, I don't care about whether you believe in this or not. Your belief is not required, and if you bother to do the research, we have the tech already, the space habitat designs, and the seed banks and frozen embryos I mentioned before. Since you mentioned the other planets you pretty much lack the complete background on this topic - nobody is talking about colonizing a planet except Elon Musk and his cronies. But the L5 Society was founded in 1975 and has been designing space habitats that long - now it has become part of the even larger National Space Society.

https://www.facebook.com/NSS/

Nor is space properly described as "hostile". The surface of a planet is hostile - space has almost unlimited supplies of power and metals and hydrocarbons and gases, just floating around. Once we have lived there awhile, it's unlikely anybody would even want to inhabit a dirty, smelly, unhealthful planet.

As few as 3000 or so humans can carry all of the human DNA diversity if they are the right 3000 people. Genetically diverse food species samples are also required, and at least multiplely redundant samples of all species - when we start the genetic engineering of a space habitat ecosystem, you want a little of everything as raw materials. Then if the remaining humans have a nuclear war that more or less sterilizes Earth, you want to repopulate the plants and animals on the planet itself from the species preserved in space habitats.

Given what we know and have discussed multiple times here, this is a plan with a high chance of success - at least compared to anything else. You will hear otherwise intelligent people suggesting that 7.5 billion humans will wise up and start conserving the planet as caring and benevalent caretakers.

[sarchasm]Yeah, right - that'll happen real soon now.[/sarchasm]
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 08:01:31

KaiserJeep wrote:It seems to me, I'm just about the only Forum member who has thought this through and has a viable plan to hang his hat on.


Kaiser, your failure to see clearly on this issue is that you frame the problem on the current crop of humans where yes there is no solution. Also for the next generation or two there is no solution. Stretch it out several generations and then it becomes clear. Dying off and correcting back to a sustainable carrying capacity IS the solution. Of course from our narrow perspective as a mortal human the reality of our species contracting down and living through the consequences makes us squirm in panic and for this reason we reach for crazy ideas like getting off this big ball before all hell breaks loose. But hell breaking loose IS THE SOLUTION.

I don't know where you see this process of the consequences of human overshoot making the planet ecologically dead and no longer livable. The very minute we go over the bell curve of peak Kudzu Ape and start contracting our over population, that is the very minute nature recolonizes our former human habitats. Several generations through this back down to a billion or 500 million and our planet will be green still, rich in biodiversity, wounded from this whole episode but by no means dead. Some charismatic top predators will be gone fore ever, some bio regions will have systemic eco system wounds which will cut deeper than others, but all in all, our mother earth will be a verdant ball full of rich life. More importantly for those of you who are Human Centric and only see the issue from humanity's benefit, well this green verdant ball several generations from now will maintain a stasis for humanity to find a stable living arrangement to carry forth. Reduced numbers but within carrying capacity. Technology preserved? Probably but we really don't know.

An analogy perhaps from our immune system will help to explain the point of what this process of human overshoot will provide humanity. There is a very good book, The Survival of the Sickest ,

https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Sickest ... B01FIXHL5A

Briefly , the book mentions how all of us here today with our powerful immune systems because of the past diseases that were necessary to hone our immune systems into being these healthy defense systems that they are. It flips the whole ideo of disease over on its head and in a deep time perspective explains how disease is not only necessary but also responsible for our resilience as a species.

When you go from hard science and take a biological phenomenon, as the book discusses, and apply it as an analogy to culture there is a certain risk of inaccuracies. But I will take that risk. Here goes. There is a very good chance that human overshoot will have the same affect on our culture that disease has had on our immune systems. Going through the consequences of human overshoot, and yes, regionally including harrowing die offs and full scale pandemics in certain areas, all of that nasty stuff, emaciated tiny babies looking out at the world with starving eyes, yes all of that included, and not just little brown babies but white babies also, yes , let's take a moment and look straight in the eyes of that horror because we will not be spared this. But IT IS THE SOLUTION. Why? Because the experience collectively of correcting back down to carrying capacity will embed deeply on whatever civilization follows. Our culture will develop antibodies to human overshoot. Those anti bodies will be a set of cultural rules and self regulations to avoid allowing this to happen again.

Nature however will be the biggest regulator for awhile anyway. We know from ecological overshoot that the carrying capacity after the correction is below the base line carrying capacity because of environmental degradation. All those resource sinks, those non renewable ones as well as renewable ones, will be impacted so after we go through the correction we are not going to bounce back up to 7 billion.

It is the interplay between a reduced carrying capacity and embedded cultural anti bodies that will act in tandem to regulate future consumption and population if we remain a civilization with technology. Here is the irony Kaiser. That is exactly what humans would do on a space colony where the artificial biospheres would require both population and consumption regulations. There is no freedom to breed and freedom to consume on a space colony. No, Cog for example, will not be invited to go into space. Sorry Cog, you stay home :) A space colony represents communism par excellence. ha ha ha

By going through the consequences of human overshoot the surviving human culture will apply the same self regulating mechanisms that you would have found on a space colony. And there you have it. We did it without ever having to blast off into space.

We need the coonsequences of human overshoot just like our species has needed disease to build the resiliency we have in our immune systems. We need this culturally since civilization is still a novelty for our species, only having been around a couple of thousands of years. The "disease" of human overshoot will hone cultural self regulation mechanisms. Global human overshoot is a first time event by the way. This is a major inflection point in the time line of human civilization, having never happened before. I look at it as a test. What doesn't make you extinct will make you stronger. Again the parallel to disease and our immune system.

Of course as some will argue the consequences of human overshoot will be so severe that civilization disappears and there will only be a few humans around falling back to our ancestral HG tribal social arrangement.

Or we will go extinct.

Yep, any of those possibilities exist. On this post I am focusing on the opportunity human overshoot has to allow our species to progress culturally in keeping civilization resilient and around for a long time.

You see, I am about the least misanthropic person you will ever meet even though I worship every morning to the overshoot predator to start the process of making us more resilient as a species. Also more resilient as a civilization. This IS THE ONLY VIABLE SOLUTION.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 08:25:36

Oh, and before I start my day, when this topic becomes over whelming please go up thread and watch the George Carlin You tube video MMasters posted. It is so relevant. We are so arrogant and sanctimonious about our place in the universe. All of this save the planet bullshit.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:04:25

Carlin's a very funny guy, but he's not a biologist, so not the best person to get advice from about what our impact could be (or is being) on the rest of life on the planet.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 12:52:56

Portions of this planet have been in overshoot and die-off for generations. Bangladesh, India, China, etc. have experienced famines that killed millions of people - China for example experienced a famine in 1958-1962, incredible human suffering was experienced, at least 36 million people perished, perhaps as many as 48 million, all without social evolution of any sort, or increased social consciousness. The main result after the disaster - which was on the same scale as WW2 - was a surging birthrate and increased consumption of food and energy and other resources.
Image
There was no noticeable cultural evolution, no changed social patterns, no essential differences in the nature and habits of humans, who are still Kudzu Apes. In fact, Digital Kudzu Apes, there are millions of smartphones in the region now.

All of you are deluding themselves. I never said the world would die, or the human species. In fact I predicted the same things as Ibon just did, and a different result. After the dieback to the sustainable range (125M to 1B), recorded in digital clarity, we resume planetary destruction, more intense warfare over limited resources. The Chinese found ways of eating a remarkable number of things during this period, extensive ecological damage occurred, rice paddies and people were replaced with tractors and mechanized agriculture, and they had a refugee crisis (people left the mainland and went to Taiwan).

The hopefull narrative you have Ibon, can be summarized as "we will suffer tremendously, and be changed in fundamental ways by the experience". But I simply do not believe that to be so, human suffering has always produced an upswell of the basest human emotions, cannibalism, and intense violence. "We must change our fundamental nature, and therefore we will change" simply does not work for me. For all the suffering through recorded history, our fundamental ape natures and behaviors are virtually unchanged since the Stone Age.

My prediction: the conditions found in the worst hellholes in Asia and Africa will become near universal on Earth. But at the same time, we'll still have an information network, just as the poorest countries have cell phones and internet today. That much at least surprised me - during my childhood when the population grew from 2 to 3 billion, two-thirds of humans died without ever using a telephone. Now starving people are web surfing and playing online games. I would never have predicted that, but it happened. The reason it happened is that our digital slaves produce a net increase in productivity and eventually aid in further resource depletion.

Ibon, ask yourself if Mt. Totumas after electricity and Internet is the same place it was before. How many people existed there before as opposed to now, and how are they changing the environment? When everyone gained Internet access, did the rate of such changes increase?
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby Cog » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 13:58:34

Don't get me wrong KJ. I'm not against space exploration or even building habitats in space or on Mars. We have learned quite a lot. But you are talking about a monumental enterprise to build a self-sustaining habit in space. Even the international space station with three people on board takes a lot of effort to keep it supplied and running properly. Who is going to finance such a thing for 3000 people and make it completely self-sustaining? Its one thing to engineer such a thing. That can be done. Its quite another matter to get someone interested in financing it.

You could design a self-sustainable habitat at the South Pole, remote from most humans on the planet, and do it much easier and for less money.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 14:14:24

This planet is infested with a hostile species, the Kudzu Ape. To effect real change requires prosperity and education. Too many people, not enough resources, so instead we will have savagery and conflict. Cog, you are an AR fancier, are you not? The AR type weapons are ubiquitous here, and ammunition is plentiful. The roving bandits will have cellphones and earpieces for comm, and will be bearing AR's when they attack your family. Just two hundred years ago, muzzle loaders and horseback couriers. Just 100 years ago, machine guns and radio and aircraft.

Just 100 years from today, people in space habitats. With advanced weaponry, particularly for suppressing those still on the surface of the planet. Say, a big nickle-Iron meteoroid with computer-controlled steering vanes, arriving at the surface at 50 miles per second from space.
Straight extrapolation, probably space colonies within 50 years.

All I assume is that mankind then will be just as unenlightened, savage, and selfish as today. You COULD assume some fundamental difference and evolutionary change, but to me that hardly seems likely.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 15:35:20

Can we ask that KJ open a thread on his little pet project and restrict his comments about it to there. Everywhere else, they are OT imho.

Thanks... :-D
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 17:05:15

We are certainly a resilient species. My personal opinion is we will NOT go extinct anytime soon. Having said that we must take as seriously as possible our horrendously menacing predicament. Ibon, is right afterall, that as our numbers go down so will our impact on the planet in a pretty commensurate manner. I do believe is folly to bank on humans being able to leave the Earth permanently and be able to thrive out in space. Space is an utterly hostile environment for humans. So, this Earth from accounts from those who would know is magnificently adept at housing life forms. We should not abandon it but try and preserve its fecundity and rich ecosystems as much as possible in order that at least some of us can continue to live on it or in it. Yes, we should explore living underground as well.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 17:35:45

"We are mortal beings doomed to die
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 17:53:28

The answer is that we will porsue ALL the assorted survival strategies, and those that are a success will preserve some number of humans. It could not be otherwise, because we are 7.5 billion individuals. Among those working against the common good will number apocalyptic cults of all religions - and those who worship the planet and consider humanity an infestation.

Ibon has Mt. Totumas, others have Doomsteads, some of us have no more intent than to live within a convenient distance from Costco, the Target store, and a good supermarket, that have electric carts for seniors.

All are equally in peril when grid electricity and motor fuels are too expensive to support the current lifestyles.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 18:35:16

Why not just not screw up our perfectly good planet in the first place?
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby mmasters » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 19:37:50

Why do you care so much about the planet? do you think you will come back to this planet and live another lifetime?
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 19:45:00

mmasters wrote:Why do you care so much about the planet? do you think you will come back to this planet and live another lifetime?


Can you imagine caring and feeling a love of your planet even if when you die you are gone for ever.

Real love is about the other, not about yourself, whether this applies to a fellow human being or your planet.

This love orients you toward service. This deep altruism perhaps has a selection pressure from the ecology of being a highly intelligent social organism. Maybe it touches on the spiritual or metaphysical. Regardless some have this capacity or inclination. Others don't.

Who am I to say what this all means. Or you for that matter?
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 19:54:58

In general, it seems some people can truly appreciate this miracle which we call existence and some it seems cannot. To look with awe and humility at the cosmos and to see yourself as insignificant can be transforming, I believe. Our planet is our Mother, when we leave it, it will continue. The same with life, some lives are extinguished and others appear to take their place. It is all a miracle and nothing more so then to be able to contemplate it. So, my earnest hope is that humans will "always" be around to contemplate and marvel at existence.
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Re: Globalists Want To Cull 90% Of World’s Population

Unread postby mmasters » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 20:25:02

Ibon wrote:
mmasters wrote:Why do you care so much about the planet? do you think you will come back to this planet and live another lifetime?


Can you imagine caring and feeling a love of your planet even if when you die you are gone for ever.

Real love is about the other, not about yourself, whether this applies to a fellow human being or your planet.

This love orients you toward service. This deep altruism perhaps has a selection pressure from the ecology of being a highly intelligent social organism. Maybe it touches on the spiritual or metaphysical. Regardless some have this capacity or inclination. Others don't.

Who am I to say what this all means. Or you for that matter?

I understand what you mean. We must respect god's design or whoever built this, be responsible and make the best of it. But the fact of the matter is there are a lot of losers on planet earth and you have to ask yourself why is this? Some of us have greatness and others don't. Personally I believe the purpose of the Universe is for god to sort out who isn't great and who who is great and deserves to move up to the spiritual (the management level of the Universe). The rest of humanity gets physical reality and comes back in different DNA incarnations until they make the cut or they don't.

You also have to consider this planet isn't special in terms of the chemistry and matter distrubution. There are probably 100,000,000,000,000 other planets like it in the Universe. God is a busy guy.
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