Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Miocene Anthropocene Future

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 20:16:40

rockdoc123 wrote:I would point out that previous decisions to change the geologic timescale have taken many years to be approved. As an example the work to include "Quaternary" as a formal unit within the timescale began in 1985 and did not reach final vote in the commission until 2006. So don't hold your breath.


This is all a bit of a red herring.

It isn't necessary for the term "anthropocene" to attain the lofty status of being an officially approved Epoch before people can use the word anthropocene. The word anthropocene is already a term in general use. The word has appeared in respected publications like NATURE and the New York Times and now appears in numerous scientific papers and abstracts, and also is defined in dictionaries. It even appears in Wikipedia, the final arbiter of truth.

I suggest we just carry on as before using the term Anthropocene in our discussions, just like the rest of the world is doing.

Image
Never underestimate the ability of Joe Biden to f#@% things up---Barack Obama
-----------------------------------------------------------
Keep running between the raindrops.
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26616
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 20:35:11

Yes Cid....demonstrate your lack of understanding further

For those interested in the process and a clear message that this is definitely not a fait a compli the following paper last year

Finney, S.C. and Edwards, L.E. 2016, The Antrhopocene epoch: Scientific decision or political statement? GAS TODAY, V 26, 3, pp 4 -10

Note that Finney is the Chair of the International Commission on Stratigraphy and Edwards is the Commissioner, North American Commission on Stratigraphic Nomenclature. In other words two members of the ICS who will be making the decision.

The proposal for the “Anthropocene” epoch as a formal unit of the geologic time scale has received extensive attention in scientific and public media. However, most articles on the Anthropocene misrepresent the nature of the units of the International Chronostratigraphic Chart, which is produced by the International Commission on Stratigraphy (ICS) and serves as the basis for the geologic time scale. The stratigraphic record of the Anthropocene is minimal, especially with its recently proposed beginning in 1945; it is that of a human lifespan, and that definition relegates considerable anthropogenic change to a “pre-Anthropocene.” The utility of the Anthropocene requires careful consideration by its various potential users. Its concept is fundamentally different from the chronostratigraphic units that are established by ICS in that the documentation and study of the human impact on the Earth system are based more on direct human observation than on a stratigraphic record. The drive to officially recognize the Anthropocene may, in fact, be political rather than scientific.


One other important point made by the authors is that because there has been such a short interval from 1945 to present there is very little in the way of preserved sedimentary record of any thickness that can be used as support for the argument.

In the paper the authors further point out the process....lots of additional work to prove up issues and discuss amongst the 20 voting member countries of the ICS. It is pretty clear this is not a done deal. And further it then has to go to the Executive Committee of the International Union of Geological Sciences for a vote in order to become official. I've read somewhere that it could take another 4-5 years to assemble the technical data in support of the AGW recommendation from vote which is necessary before the ICS will even begin their debate.

It isn't necessary for the term "anthropocene" to attain the lofty status of being an officially approved Epoch before people can use the word anthropocene.


Of course that is a possibility and one that is recommended by a host of stratigraphers who recognize the problem with a formal identification. The problem you face now is what is the proper defintion for it? What time frame etc. As Finner and Edwards point out this is more a political decision than a scientific one.
User avatar
rockdoc123
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7685
Joined: Mon 16 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 22:55:42

rd and ab seem to be wearing their political correctness panties today, tsking people about using words that they deem to be not properly 'correct' according to their warped and deranged visions of the world.

I doubt that their version of PC is going to work any better than any others, but it is certainly far more obnoxious than most other versions.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby Cog » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 23:39:20

I do not remember stratigraphy being so filled with drama when I took it in college forty years ago. Good to know those crusty old geologists can have a good time arguing the finer points of naming rock layers.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13416
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 23:40:21

Cid_Yama wrote:Yes, Plant is technically correct, that the full International Congress has not voted, but it is all but a done deal.


There is no "technical". There is just correct. When it becomes official, then people can claim it as it exists. Until then, nope, not yet.
Cid_Yama wrote:Seems AdamB doesn't like the vote and would rather misrepresent it. How does that not surprise me.


Seems like I'm not the one "technically" misrepresenting it. I stated it as a fact and I, and Plant, are both correct. There is no Anthropocene epoch. There MIGHT be...but that hasn't happened yet, so run along and misrepresent that fact to those gullible enough to not know the difference between it being a done deal, or not.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 23:44:43

Cid_Yama wrote:How stupid does he think people on here are? :roll:


You tell us, being the one currently not even knowing the difference between a declared Anthropocene, and a not yet declared Anthropocene. You don't have to lead the reality challenged brigades by example you know.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 01 Jun 2017, 23:51:59

Cid_Yama wrote:Blah, Blah, Blah - What I didn't read was your reply.


Why would you? You might have learned something. Stop resisting learning something, you can't change the reality of who gets to declare an epoch, just wait and see, and in the meantime stop testing the stratospheric limits of reality denial, we understand already that P.T. Barnum was right, you don't have to keep proving it.
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 09:23:44

"...reality denial..."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 02 Jun 2017, 11:17:13

The reality is, it is far too late to stop climate change. The sooner we accept that the sooner we can look for solutions to maintain a viable civilization with climate change being one existential factor in the mix.
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Subjectivist
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4701
Joined: Sat 28 Aug 2010, 07:38:26
Location: Northwest Ohio

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby M_B_S » Sat 03 Jun 2017, 02:00:47

http://pubman.mpdl.mpg.de/pubman/item/e ... 11_neu.pdf
Middle Miocene Climate Evolution:
The Role of Large-Scale Ocean Circulation
and Ocean Gateways


Hey PEAK OILER just read the Krapp Dissertation

"Bis zum Ende der Welt" S.7 :idea: :arrow:

https://www.pik-potsdam.de/members/krapp

http://climateanalytics.org
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.

M_B_S
User avatar
M_B_S
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat 20 Aug 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby Subjectivist » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 06:26:51

Mark Lynas wrote:Along with Trump and Exxon-Mobil, I'd add the German Green Party to my list of climate criminals. Looks like Germany is going to miss its carbon targets 'disastrously'. Why? Because the Greens let their 1970s-era anti-nuclear ideology trump any thoughts about carbon, in establishing an 'Energiewende' that was all about switching off nuclear and replacing it with their sacred renewables. Meanwhile they left the dirty coal plants humming away undisturbed! And now they blame anyone but themselves, demanding the current government switch off coal knowing full well that is now impossible to do because the lights would go out. Greens do lots of handwaving and virtue signalling while the coal trains keep rumbling along. And this is a model for the rest of the world? It's a model for what happens when you give ideology higher priority than evidence.


http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/1 ... ent-paper/
Last edited by Tanada on Thu 12 Oct 2017, 07:49:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed broken quote
II Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Subjectivist
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4701
Joined: Sat 28 Aug 2010, 07:38:26
Location: Northwest Ohio

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 07:08:30

Subjectivist wrote:
Mark Lynas wrote:Along with Trump and Exxon-Mobil, I'd add the German Green Party to my list of climate criminals. Looks like Germany is going to miss its carbon targets 'disastrously'. Why? Because the Greens let their 1970s-era anti-nuclear ideology trump any thoughts about carbon, in establishing an 'Energiewende' that was all about switching off nuclear and replacing it with their sacred renewables. Meanwhile they left the dirty coal plants humming away undisturbed! And now they blame anyone but themselves, demanding the current government switch off coal knowing full well that is now impossible to do because the lights would go out. Greens do lots of handwaving and virtue signalling while the coal trains keep rumbling along. And this is a model for the rest of the world? It's a model for what happens when you give ideology higher priority than evidence.


http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/1 ... ent-paper/


Yes shame on Germany under Merkel and other climate criminals... Merkel fools the whole world .

Its not the Green its Merkel CDU+ SPD "Great" Coalition
User avatar
M_B_S
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat 20 Aug 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby Revi » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 08:53:12

Sea levels are climbing at about a centimeter a year. That means a lot of places are going to be underwater soon. Not to mention storm surges, etc. I think we need to deal with this, and soon! Boston's back bay, large parts of NYC and of course Miami are all going to be in trouble soon. It seems like the real consequences of climate change are hitting now. We are finding out that its a real problem, despite what Pruitt, Inhofe and Our Dear Leader think.

Call it the holocene, anthropocene or whatever. It matters not. The water is rising..
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby AdamB » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 10:43:25

Revi wrote:Call it the holocene, anthropocene or whatever. It matters not. The water is rising..


Has been for a long time Revi. The newest stuff ain't nuttin compared to when REAL global warming was roiling the planet. But for the last 8000 years? Not so much. I would recommend we worry about real issues, like the halitosis epidemic in our rural areas.

Image
Plant Thu 27 Jul 2023 "Personally I think the IEA is exactly right when they predict peak oil in the 2020s, especially because it matches my own predictions."

Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
User avatar
AdamB
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Mon 28 Dec 2015, 17:10:26

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 12 Oct 2017, 18:18:25

Yup, that's how fast it can rise and faster. And that is what we are heading for, and faster.
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby dissident » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 09:56:11

AdamB wrote:
Revi wrote:Call it the holocene, anthropocene or whatever. It matters not. The water is rising..


Has been for a long time Revi. The newest stuff ain't nuttin compared to when REAL global warming was roiling the planet. But for the last 8000 years? Not so much. I would recommend we worry about real issues, like the halitosis epidemic in our rural areas.

Image


What a useless graph for the current discussion. All of the details are buried around (0,0) which are at the pixel scale using the graph units.

Image

Image

Only an idiot would spout off at others about worrying too much.
dissident
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6458
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby Revi » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 13:32:58

Obviously Adam B doesn't leave anywhere near sea level. If he did, he might understand that rising a centimeter a year could be a big problem.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby jawagord » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 23:02:12

Revi wrote:Obviously Adam B doesn't leave anywhere near sea level. If he did, he might understand that rising a centimeter a year could be a big problem.

I think you probably do not live anywhere near sea level either? If you did you would know that tides are the big problem not minuscule sea level rise. Which is why we have tide charts, tide apps, tide warnings to protect us from events like a 12 ft change in tide level during a day.

http://www.tofino-bc.com/tides/print.php
Don't deny the peak!
jawagord
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon 29 May 2017, 10:49:17

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 23:06:42

Riiiiight.

And that is why tides are now regularly flooding the streets of Miami.

Thanks for the entertainment...
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Miocene Anthropocene Future

Unread postby kiwichick » Tue 17 Oct 2017, 16:16:38

+ 1 Dohboi
User avatar
kiwichick
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sat 02 Aug 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Southland New Zealand

PreviousNext

Return to Environment, Weather & Climate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests