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THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 7

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 12 Sep 2017, 17:00:16

kublikhan wrote: You have to say one nice thing about each of the following subjects:
1. Tesla
2. Obama
3. China


OK.

Tesla is doing a good thing by ending their stupid policy of degrading the performance of batteries in some of their Model S cars.

Obama's world tour of billionaires private islands, penthouses, villas and exotic poshy resorts is really impressive. I didn't even know there were hotel rooms that rented for $10,000 per night.

Chinese culture is fascinating. I'll never forget the time I was in Lanzhou and I found a snake skeleton in the soup. It was kind of intertwined with the turtle skeleton. And when I was in Beijing I was invited to a formal banquet in the Great Hall of the People --- I had "thousand year eggs" and lots of Chinese beer and made lots of Chinese friends who invited me back to China twice more.. And, if you get a chance, go get a foot massage in China. One of my friends took me---the massage parlors are lit up with neon like something from Vegas and they have these sexy young women in bikinis who take you into a private room with a very comfy overstuffed chair.....and then they massage your feet. Ahhhhhh....very nice indeed.

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Would you please rub my gall bladder spot again? Thanks....ahhhhhh

Cheers!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby asg70 » Tue 12 Sep 2017, 19:56:24

Could a moderator please stop Plant using this thread to fuel his crusade du jour because it's nothing but an attention-whoring sideshow.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 12 Sep 2017, 21:10:49

asg70 wrote:Could a moderator please stop Plant using this thread


Why are you wasting the precious time of the moderaters on such nonsense?

This thread is dedicated to discussion of news about EVs.

Well---the news story that Tesla has temporarily stopped degrading the performance of Teslas in Florida is big news. That's why all the major organs of the MSM are covering it. There have been news stories on CNN, NBC, WaPo, NYTimes, WSJ, etc. etc. discussing Tesla's bizarre policy of intentionally degrading the performance of some of their cars.

Why not face facts----you are bent out of shape because this story shows TESLA in a bad light----and for some reason you think if you beg the mods to help you to censor news that isn't favorable to TESLA that they will do your bidding.

I think you are on the wrong track. IMHO you'd be better off if you would man up and just just discuss EVs instead of resorting to personal attacks and crying to the mods to censor posts you don't like.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 05:38:13

Plantagenet wrote:I think you are on the wrong track.


It's already been observed that you have a pattern to lock onto a perceived scandal and then flog it to death like it's some sort of Watergate. There is a reasonable discussion to be had but this sensationalist BS doesn't qualify.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Cog » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 06:48:51

Concerning the Tesla battery scandal. Isn't it the same battery for all Tesla cars but you pay more to not have it degraded? Sort of like you have to pay more for fully functional software instead of shareware?

Not sure a lot of people knew this about Tesla cars prior to Musk removing the degradation for the purposes of the IRMA evacuation. He certainly should have kept it more low key. Makes Tesla look underhanded.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby asg70 » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 08:22:18

Tesla can charge whatever it wants. Go do the math on the underlying overhead of an Apple product in relation to the final retail price, for instance. It's all based on what the market supports. If people don't feel like they're getting full value they won't buy it, plain and simple. They discontinued the S60 because people didn't buy it, for instance. The invisible hand of the market works. No need to start a witch-hunt.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:20:38

asg70 wrote: ....some sort of Watergate.


Your suggestion that the TESLA battery issue "is some kind of Watergate" verges on hysteria.

Don't get so wee-wee'd up---this isn't Watergate---its just a typical corporate greed kind of scandal.

TESLA figured they could rip people off by charging different prices for the exact same car----if they degraded battery performance on some of them.

Obviously it hasn't worked out very well for them because they are ending this wrong-headed policy.

Cheers!

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Is this where Tesla has been intentionally degrading the quality of its batteries it puts in its cheaper cars?

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:24:54

Cog wrote:Not sure a lot of people knew this about Tesla cars prior to Musk removing the degradation for the purposes of the IRMA evacuation. He certainly should have kept it more low key. Makes Tesla look underhanded.


Exactly right, Cog. As usual, you show you are a very perceptive person.

People who are defending TESLA degrading the quality of its batteries don't get it. This is about corporate image----what kind of a company actually intentionally degrades the quality of its own products so it can sell a crappier product to consumers? Its truly bizarre that TESLA has been caught doing this.

The whole purpose of a company should be to provide the absolute highest quality product to the consumer.

Cheers!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby GHung » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:30:20

Plantagenet wrote:
asg70 wrote: ....some sort of Watergate.


Your suggestion that the TESLA battery issue "is some kind of Watergate" verges on hysteria.

Don't get so wee-wee'd up---this isn't Watergate---its just a typical corporate greed kind of scandal.

TESLA figured they could rip people off by charging different prices for the exact same car----if they degraded battery performance on some of them.

Obviously it hasn't worked out very well for them because they are ending this wrong-headed policy.

Cheers!

Image
Is this where Tesla has been intentionally degrading the quality of its batteries it puts in its cheaper cars?


I've used software for years (one example is AutoCad) where the installation discs includes virtually all of the features, and users had to pay to unlock those features they needed. Seems you haven't considered that many Tesla buyers may not need that extended range and don't want to pay for it, just as I didn't need the included 3D features and modeling in AutoCad that I wasn't forced to pay for.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby baha » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:40:13

Ok, let me give you my perspective...

Tesla is walking a fine line between maximum capability and warranty lifetime. The deeper you discharge a battery the shorter it's lifetime. Same goes for fast-charging, it effects the lifetime of the battery.

He is gambling by offering a 10 year warranty on something no one has ever seen last ten years (because they haven't existed that long). All the tests and all the theories are mute when you hand one of these things to a geek like me. The only thing stopping me from totally mistreating my battery is his software.

The fact that he took a warrantied risk and allowed people to use more battery than his algorithm allowed speaks well of him. The reality is, if you are willing to run the battery to truly dead the Tesla would probably have twice the range, but the battery would only last 5 years...maybe 2.

My electric VW will not have these limits. I will have to pay close attention to SOC (State Of Charge) to prevent damaging my batteries. But if I'm being chased by a hurricane I don't need permission to push my limits.

Tesla is taking a huge risk offering a 10 year warranty. The company may fail at the 8 year mark for this reason. His only safety net is controlling those batteries over the net. To be honest, I'm not sure what the criteria is for a warranty replacement. I'll have to look into that. I hope it doesn't involve fire :)
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:48:19

GHung wrote: Seems you haven't considered that many Tesla buyers may not need that extended range


Seems you missed the news stories about this issue.

It turned out people actually DID need the extended range. When Hurricane IRMA hit Florida TESLA remotely extended the range for people in Florida so they could escape Hurricane Irma. Now TESLA said they will turn it off again in 3 more days, whether people need it or not.

There aren't a whole lot of charging stations functioning in Florida right now. There isn't even a lot of electricity in Florida right now. And yet heartless cruel and greedy TESLA is REDUCING the range on their cars so people can't use them in this emergency? Why? Why reduce people's range in an emergency???

IMHO thats absolutely nutso. At the very least its very bad corporate PR.

Tesla's message seems to be SCREW the Hurricane IRMA victims. And screw everybody else who has an emergency and needs the full range the car has built into it.

Cheers!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby GHung » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:51:33

Plantagenet wrote:
GHung wrote: Seems you haven't considered that many Tesla buyers may not need that extended range


Seems you missed the news stories about this issue.

It turned out people actually DID need the extended range. When Hurricane IRMA hit Florida TESLA remotely extended the range for people in Florida so they could escape Hurricane Irma. Now TESLA said they will turn it off again in 3 more days, whether people need it or not.

There aren't a whole lot of charging stations functioning in Florida right now. There isn't even a lot of electricity in Florida right now. And yet heartless cruel and greedy TESLA is REDUCING the range on their cars so people can't use them in this emergency? Why? Why reduce people's range in an emergency???

IMHO thats absolutely nutso. At the very least its very bad corporate PR.

Tesla's message seems to be SCREW the Hurricane IRMA victims. And screw everybody else who has an emergency and needs the full range the car has built into it.

Cheers!


Jeez, Planty, so DON'T BUY A TESLA.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:57:23

GHung wrote:Jeez, Planty, so DON'T BUY A TESLA.


Jeez, Gungy, I LIVE IN ALASKA AND TESLAs DON"T WORK VERY WELL IN COLD WEATHER

----------

Please think before you post. Just take a second and think about things.

Do you know anything about EVs? Apparently you don't know that EVs batteries run down quickly in very cold weather?

tesla-battery-range-sub-zero-

Studies show the Tesla battery loses about 40% of its range below freezing. How much range do you think it would have if it was 70 or 80 degrees below freezing, i.e. -40 to -50 F?

Do I really have to keep explaining the most basic and simplest things to people?

My fellow Peak Oil posters---please think before you post.

Cheers!
Last edited by Plantagenet on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 13:06:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby GHung » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 13:05:34

Plantagenet wrote:
GHung wrote:Jeez, Planty, so DON'T BUY A TESLA.


Jeez, Gungy, I LIVE IN ALASKA AND TESLA's DON"T WORK VERY WELL IN COLD WEATHER

----------

Think about it.

Don't you even know that EVs batteries run down quickly in very cold weather?

Do I have to explain the simplest things?

Cheers!


By your warped logic people who live in hurricane evacuation zones shouldn't buy Teslas either. Or maybe you should buy one and insist that Elon come warm your battery every time it gets cold.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 13:10:28

GHung wrote: people who live in hurricane evacuation zones shouldn't buy Teslas .


Jeez.

Another bizarre idea.

What are you trying to say? Do you agree with Tesla's policy of degrading the battery and limiting the range of people who buy Teslas or don't you?

Do you approve of TESLA reducing people's range by degrading their battery performance in the middle of hurricane emergency?

Wouldn't it be simpler for TESLA to simply let people use the full capability of the cars they've purchased without degrading their performance? Especially in an emergency?

Cheers!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby baha » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 13:22:40

I just looked :) The warranty says 70% capacity after 10 years. So I should have 9.1 kW-hrs of capacity left after 10 years of unlimited use. That's pretty amazing for a battery (3652 cycles). I will beat that since I only use 30% capacity each day...or not...who knows.

Yes, batteries lose some capacity when cold. But not as much as you think. The problem is the big, soft, human that keeps turning on the heater :)
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 13:55:37

baha wrote: The problem is the big, soft, human that keeps turning on the heater


You try driving around at -50 with no heater.

It ain't gonna happen.

Cheers!

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 15:17:48

More weirdness from Tesla.

They've remotely turned off the emergency braking systems in some cars

tesla-turns-off-aeb-in-some-models

All you Tesla owners out there....did you get a text from Tesla telling you they were turning off one of your car's standard features---the emergency braking system?

Image

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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 17:24:51

Apparently the purchaser of the car pays all the bills but the company retains control of it's performance throughout it's life. That might fly in China and Russia and perhaps even in the UK but wont last a day in Texas or in any of the Red states in the US.
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Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby GHung » Wed 13 Sep 2017, 17:57:48

vtsnowedin wrote:Apparently the purchaser of the car pays all the bills but the company retains control of it's performance throughout it's life. That might fly in China and Russia and perhaps even in the UK but wont last a day in Texas or in any of the Red states in the US.


That's the deal killer for me. It's also why I don't do Apple, etc., and in Tesla's case the taxpayers are paying part of that bill.
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