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THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 29 Apr 2017, 23:41:59

Syn - Actually Mexico has been exporting coal sporadically since at least 1980. Not much volume until 2011: 267,000 tons.

https://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?coun ... ph=exports

No idea if expanding with US coal would be practical. But found this:

http://www.sightline.org/2014/05/15/prb ... gh-mexico/

New coal export proposal may signal desperation over Northwest terminals.

"According to an article in a coal trade publication last week, a private firm has announced plans to open a coal export terminal in Guaymas, Mexico. The project aims to ship 30 million tons of coal per year to Asia, sourced from the Powder River Basin and other mining regions in the western US."

{But adds} "In today’s market, coal companies simply can’t ship PRB coal to Asia through Guaymas without losing their shirts. The transportation costs are too high, and the prices that PRB coal would receive in Asia are too low."
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 30 Apr 2017, 07:03:51

ROCKMAN wrote:Syn - Actually Mexico has been exporting coal sporadically since at least 1980. Not much volume until 2011: 267,000 tons.

https://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?coun ... ph=exports

No idea if expanding with US coal would be practical. But found this:

http://www.sightline.org/2014/05/15/prb ... gh-mexico/

New coal export proposal may signal desperation over Northwest terminals.

"According to an article in a coal trade publication last week, a private firm has announced plans to open a coal export terminal in Guaymas, Mexico. The project aims to ship 30 million tons of coal per year to Asia, sourced from the Powder River Basin and other mining regions in the western US."

{But adds} "In today’s market, coal companies simply can’t ship PRB coal to Asia through Guaymas without losing their shirts. The transportation costs are too high, and the prices that PRB coal would receive in Asia are too low."


Interesting, this is the first time I have heard of Mexico serving as just the export terminal for USA companies, I thought they just shipped out their own coal.

Prices for coal shipped to Asia TODAY might be too low to make a profit but as the ROCKMAN has pointed out a few times these type of big projects usually come with a 15 or 25 year long contract for supply at a minimum price. I know that big relatively new cargo container port in Florida made a lot of long term contracts with Chinese companies before they invested all that money to build the facilities. The plan in Florida is to gather in the traffic that would have gone to Baltimore or New York City that is resulting from the expansion of the Panama Canal which opened last year. Unlike most states on the eastern seaboard Florida was eager to build facilities for the increased traffic, the NIMBY disease seems to get significant pushback from government there.

So if this company is serious about exporting coal from Guyumas I would suspect they have already lined up some long term contracts to cover the costs of getting the project in motion.
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Satori » Sun 30 Apr 2017, 07:18:39

recommended reading
Coal: A Human History
by Barbara Freese

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/376067.Coal
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 30 Apr 2017, 07:52:07

Satori wrote:recommended reading
Coal: A Human History
by Barbara Freese

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/376067.Coal


I will think about it for historical perspective, but it was published over 13 years ago and a heck of a lot has happened in world coal trade and use since then.
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 16:30:38

This just out from Carbon Brief: https://www.carbonbrief.org/seven-chart ... ady-peaked

"Seven charts show why the IEA thinks coal investment has already peaked"
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 18 Jul 2017, 09:18:14

No need for 7 charts IMHO. Just one showing the boom in coal prices a few years ago plotted against the drop in NG prices. Economics of coal plant construction seems to drive the dynamics more then any other factor. So the critical question: will the decline in NG investments lead eventually to higher prices and produce a new chart showing a new advantage for coal over NG?

And couldn't let this slip thru: "Sales of electric vehicles – which the IEA partly counts towards the energy efficiency total – also rose strongly, up 38% to 750,000. So did they not count the 84,000,000 new ICE's sold in 2016 when calculating the " energy efficiency total"?
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby jawagord » Mon 24 Jul 2017, 15:39:01

Probably belongs in the category of more Dutch wind power = more Dutch coal fired power if such a topic was available, but couldn't find it so this looks like the next best place: Coal exports are up and to of all places Europe.

"A report by the EIA indicated that coal exports—for both steam coal, used for power generation, and metallurgical coal, used for refining steel—have increased by 58 percent from Q1 of 2016 to Q1 of 2017. The majority of the increase was in steam coal, which grew by 6 million short tons (MMst).

Big U.S. coal customer: Europe. Out of the approximately 5.108 million short tons of steam coal exported to Europe, the Netherlands consumed approximately 2.530 million short tons—a little less than 50 percent."

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Coal/US-Coal ... rkets.html
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Re: THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 00:12:30

jaw - All good data. BTW the reason the Netherlands imports so much coal is because it re-exports much of it to other European countries. In fact much of all commodities imported are ultimately shipped to other countries. From

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2015/48/m ... -re-export

"Bulk of the Nethertlands transited goods are coal and ore.

The gross weight of transited goods is dominated by coal, ores, petroleum (derivatives) and natural gas, which altogether make up nearly two-thirds of the total weight in transited goods. The vast amounts of coals and ores are characteristic for the transit business."
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