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The Greenland Thread

Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby Cog » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 08:11:29

And you will kill everyone who doesn't hold Mother Earth as sacred. Tell me you won't.
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby Ibon » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 08:36:41

Cog wrote:And you will kill everyone who doesn't hold Mother Earth as sacred. Tell me you won't.


Certainly part of the reason you are drawn to this site is that you recognize on some level that we are collectively killing ourselves if we don't learn to self regulate our consumption and population. We know your position that is clear that as long as everyone else dies except you and your tribe than that is ok. That is not the point though, who you want dead or who I am willing to kill :)

It's closely related to how one manages ones personal finances. You have shared how you honor frugality and sustaining yourself economically. A set of external consequences will shift that position you have to including sustaining yourself ecologically as well. In due time, if not you then your progeny. The day will come when sustaining yourself ecologically will be the best way to preserve your wealth. We aren't there yet.

In the same pragmatic way that Wallmart for example distributes so efficiently its product chain. The only thing missing is holding mother earth as sacred as you do your stock portfolio.

By the way, when did I suggest killing anyone? The correction comes external of human agency.
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 09:32:11

Don't bother with cog...he's just part of the outermost, crustiest, most rigid and brittle part of your onion...sure to fall away first. :)

But he does do a good job of representing what your cultural evolution, if that's an appropriate term here, is up against. He has been exposed to cogent arguments here for years now, yet he and a few other continue to cling to their withered belief system.

I think the real 'lesson' will come when/if people are again in relatively small, relatively isolated communities, where pretty much all consumption is perforce local. In that situation, you really don't make it for very long unless you learn quickly (within a very few generations) to live within your ecological means.
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby Cog » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 10:03:20

Seems to me we are living within our ecological means right now. Those energy slaves we work so diligently to dig out of the ground, continue to do useful work and sustain the population that we have. Ecological constraints don't mean the same to a human as they do the beasts of the field.
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 12:16:00

Again, cog provides the valuable service of manifesting for us the deep-seated anthropo-exceptionalism (if I may coin a term) that sits near the heart of most modern delusions.
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Record July Temperature

Unread postby jawagord » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 12:35:36

Record low for North America that is -33C.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/ice-maki ... /455525240
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 12:44:08

Yes, Virginia, there are going to be new records set both on the cold and the warm side for quite some time to come. That's the nature of weather.

But as the climate has shifted, there have been many more hot records broken than cold, especially so in the last two decades or so.

But as long as there is still snow, there will be some damn fool congressman throwing it around stupidly pretending that this proves anything about anything.
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby jawagord » Wed 26 Jul 2017, 17:39:51

Even the doomer websites are picking up on the near record snows and cold temperatures in Greenland. Now it seems there might be no net loss of ice mass this year. I will have to amend my 15,000 yr melting calculation to 15,000 + 1 years!

..........this year has been noticeably different. It all started in October, when big snowstorms “really loaded Greenland up,” Jason Box, a glaciologist at the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland, said. “That really preconditioned this year for low melt because it thermally insulates the darker ice below.”

Previous research by Box using ice cores — long cylinders drilled out of the ice sheet that let scientists sample hundreds of years of ice layers — showed that in the past, snowfall has increased over the ice sheet as temperatures have risen.

The snow could, however, balance out the year’s melt, Box said, with the ice sheet ending up with no net loss of ice for the year — the first year that will have happened in two decades.

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/desp ... ting-21643
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 27 Jul 2017, 06:47:52

@ jawagoard

https://www.ecowatch.com/nasa-glacier-m ... 08803.html
Image

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/nasa-d ... -greenland

A new NASA study finds that during Greenland's hottest summers on record, 2010 and 2012, the ice in Rink Glacier on the island's west coast didn't just melt faster than usual, it slid through the glacier's interior in a gigantic wave, like a warmed freezer pop sliding out of its plastic casing...
****************
When you put pressure on the freezer pop (glacier snow) the warm glacier ice will move faster on the melting water film threw the ocean.

More here

http://climate.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... enland.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 072374/pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 069666/pdf
http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/2016/1 ... in-review/
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Re: The Greenland Thread

Unread postby ozcad » Thu 27 Jul 2017, 12:32:52

Previous research ... using ice cores ... showed that in the past, snowfall has increased over the ice sheet as temperatures have risen.

I've wondered in the past whether increasing atmospheric humidity (from oceanic evaporation) could raise snow fall.
e.g. If ice sheet (north or south) air temps rose from -10C to -5C, almost all of the increased humidity would still freeze and drop out as extra snow.
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