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Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 10 Jun 2017, 16:16:42

Don Stewart

Sadly the the opportunity to implement Browns's sustainable vision came and went. Holistic managed planned grazing is an elegant solution to oil and soil depletion as well as excessive carbon release. It depend on infrastructure, labor force, and control systems that does not exist. Intensive management and adjustments to stock, specialized expensive hardware (fences shutes, wire etc) and computer systems. Current systems, open grazing, feedlocks and milking sheds are in place and too costly to exchange. In fact, a comprehensive conversion to sustainable systems (organic, bio-intensive, permaculture) to effectively counter CO2 and peak oil decline is no longer possible. A reordering of our entire built world (food production and processing, housing and shopping) for proximity of nutrients, labor and markets.

That opportunity was lost when we put our marbles into the building mania of the 2000's. It is not a coincidence that the last build-out of Chinese and American suburbia, the Middle East skycraper mania and Trumps Casino Contruction business all happened during the runup to $147/barrel oil and the collapse of world economy. We don't get another chance.
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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby donstewart » Sat 10 Jun 2017, 17:11:24

@pstarr
Hope my reply doesn't upset people worried about refineries. I'll be brief. See this from Helen Disler in Australia:
Farmers Are Becoming More Interested In Changing Their Methods

Listen as Alan Broughton introduces his book:

"Sustainable Agriculture V Corporate Greed"

"It's not just in the realm of consumers and councils and all that, that these changes are starting to take place in agriculture.It's happening with farmers too. There's a rapidly growing movement I think of farmers who are becoming more interested in changing their methods, because the old methods cost a lot, and they basically don't work anymore, for a lot of people".

Click Here to watch

Half to most farmers are losing money. They are being forced to look at purchased inputs. Gabe Brown says that he has to buy his own ball caps, because the salesmen no longer come around.

Change might happen faster than we think.

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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 10 Jun 2017, 17:21:23

@ Don
At the present petroleum is falling short by 15 quad BTU per year of having an on going sustainable system. You say that there is 1 billion hectares of redeemable land available. Wouldn't be a hoot if we found out that it is possible to pull 15 quad BTU from 1 billion hectares. Get a hold of me and we'll try running some numbers. 15 quad BTU is a gross energy number, we need to calculate net energy on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised if we are actually closer than you would think.

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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 10 Jun 2017, 17:29:12

donstewart wrote:Change might happen faster than we think.

Don Stewart


Or....not.

And this is a thread about world refiners dealing with glut, low prices, resource abundance, etc etc. Just as there are threads for the gullible who don't know anything about thermodynamics, there are also threads for those who enjoy gardening. Go there and post eco-ideas, how about?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby AdamB » Sat 10 Jun 2017, 17:32:42

shortonoil wrote:@ Don
At the present petroleum is falling short by 15 quad BTU per year of having an on going sustainable system.


As long as you define "sustainable" as anyone who wants crude oil for approximately $50/bbl being able to get as much as they want. Anytime you begin a conclusion with, "if you assume 2+2=5...then everything else must follow...", you can see where you'll lose everyone who took 2nd grade math.

And as Rockman has pointed out, folks who have already proven they can't even be bothered to account for refinery inputs and outputs aren't the ones you ask about refineries.
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 10 Jun 2017, 19:13:34

AdamB wrote:
donstewart wrote:Change might happen faster than we think.

Don Stewart


Or....not.

And this is a thread about world refiners dealing with glut, low prices, resource abundance, etc etc. Just as there are threads for the gullible who don't know anything about thermodynamics, there are also threads for those who enjoy gardening. Go there and post eco-ideas, how about?

We say what the thread is about. You are a lonely bystander and sometimes or mostly, an angry troll.
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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 13:02:45

As long as you define "sustainable" as anyone who wants crude oil for approximately $50/bbl being able to get as much as they want


Like I said they want their own options, their own data and now they want their own definitions. It seems you need a "Troll Dictionary" to follow anything on this site. That puts anyone that still has a working brain at a serious disadvantage.
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Re: Reuters: "World refiners are CLOGGED with oil"

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 11 Jun 2017, 13:04:05

shortonoil wrote:
As long as you define "sustainable" as anyone who wants crude oil for approximately $50/bbl being able to get as much as they want


Like I said they want their own options, their own data and now they want their own definitions. It seems you need a "Troll Dictionary" to follow anything on this site. That puts anyone that still has a working brain at a serious disadvantage.

You can laugh or cry. Or humiliate the d*mn trolls :twisted: 8)
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