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THE North Korea Thread pt 2 (merged)

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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 01:31:04

vtsnowedin wrote:It will be hard for them to sell anything if they manage to get themselves blown into a smoking ash heap.


Yup.

At the big White House meeting on NK Trump indicated he is going to rely on diplomatic pressure and sanctions to get NK to stop their nuke program.

On the other hand, he's moved a lot of US naval assets into dangerous waters around NK.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump wants to see something like the 1964 Tonkin Gulf incident happen again, i.e. some kind of US Navy interaction with the North Koreans that Trump can use to justify a US military response.

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In 1964 LBJ used the Tonkin Gulf incident to take the US into the Vietnam War. Will Trump do something similar now to start a war against North Korea?
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Cog » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 08:28:09

We cured Japan and Germany of their mental disease back in WW2. We can cure the North Koreans of theirs.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 11:30:04

Cog wrote:We cured Japan and Germany of their mental disease back in WW2. We can cure the North Koreans of theirs.

Yeah but the hospital bill was a Dammed stiff one.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 12:08:02

vtsnowedin wrote:
Cog wrote:We cured Japan and Germany of their mental disease back in WW2. We can cure the North Koreans of theirs.

Yeah but the hospital bill was a Dammed stiff one.


There is a more recent example then WWII.

That was the idea behind the very expensive nation building projects carried out in both Afghanistan and Iraq by Bush and Obama. The goal was to create a model democracy in the Arab world i.e. we'll cure them of their mental disease.

AND how did that work out?

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The US has been a flop when it comes to nation building
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 12:23:58

Cog wrote:We cured Japan and Germany of their mental disease back in WW2. We can cure the North Koreans of theirs.


We did not cure it, we caught it. It's called GRANDIOSITY.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 18:46:17

vtsnowedin wrote:Just turning the cash N. Korea is wasting on it's military towards agriculture and economic development would go a long way towards fixing the problems they have.

As in the US, say towards infrastructure spending and jobs -- if we'd use our military only for our defense (instead of interventionist adventures), and have our partners pay their fair share where we're expected to be "the tip of the sphere" for things like keeping oil transit fairly safe in the Persian Gulf, etc.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 18:49:29

Cog wrote:We cured Japan and Germany of their mental disease back in WW2. We can cure the North Koreans of theirs.

At what cost? Do you really think the US is immune to, say, Chinese cyber attacks?

I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying that this is a precarious situation, and the potential consequences are huge.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 19:06:32

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Just turning the cash N. Korea is wasting on it's military towards agriculture and economic development would go a long way towards fixing the problems they have.

As in the US, say towards infrastructure spending and jobs -- if we'd use our military only for our defense (instead of interventionist adventures), and have our partners pay their fair share where we're expected to be "the tip of the sphere" for things like keeping oil transit fairly safe in the Persian Gulf, etc.

The tip of the sphere? How about the point of the spear. That might work better.
I know "dam you auto correct!! just saying.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 19:08:20

Outcast,

My personal opinion, gut feeling, is China does NOT want this to flare up into a hot war. They will squash it before it gets out of control, or at least intend to. NK May suprise them, and that is indeed dangerous.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 19:36:05

Newfie wrote:Outcast,

My personal opinion, gut feeling, is China does NOT want this to flare up into a hot war. They will squash it before it gets out of control, or at least intend to. NK May suprise them, and that is indeed dangerous.

Kim dumb fat has assassinated more then one general that had some Chinese leanings. That brings up the question of what options do the Chinese actually have to control Kim?
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 20:17:34

Any hot war involving China & the US will cause a credit crisis, will crash markets, already at near or minus zero bank rates. Of course China doesn't want that.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Cog » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 21:21:00

If the Norks didn't have nuclear weapons and developing long range ballistic missiles and routinely threatened to nuke their neighbors, we would have a good laugh about it over a few beers. But they do have nuclear weapons and are threatening to use them against their neighbors. A condition that is not tolerable to the US or its allies.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 22:05:55

Agreed Cog. Kim is pushing the big boys in the yard. Someone will make some kind of adjustment to stabilize the situation. I just think China is the most likely actor, followed by Russia. It is unlikely the USA will do anything except threaten and maybe make some feints to keep prodding China.

I have a very hard time envisioning any solution that ends up with a united Korea.

It may be that the military is so loyal to Kim that they would die for him, or fight China, which is the same thing.

Who knows, Kim may take a red pill and shut up for a while. That's probably the last thing Trump wants. That leaves him with an unresolved problem and makes it his problem.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 23:19:52

the odd thing here for me is trying to understand Kim's motivation.
Yeah OK it's good to threaten the world superpowers with the hopes of a "Mouse that Roared" outcome. But that sort of manipulation requires a bit of finesse which Kim J has not demonstrated. For all intents and purposes he truly looks like a madman who for crazy reasons controls a huge amount of ordinance.
It seems to me that there is only one solution here, one that the CIA was OK with back in the sixties but now is, apparently, illegal.
No matter what kind of "deal" happens here to settle him down there is no question that he is a danger to the entire world. He must realize that unless he is incredibly crazy/stupid/mentally challenged. As a consequence unless he has a death wish why is he wandering down this crazed path?
I've read the various pundits views about how this is somehow "shrewd" but as far as I can see it is the absolute dumbest thing to ever do. He has nothing to hold the world to ransom for (if North Korea disappeared off the face of Asia pretty much no one would notice) and his threats about sending missiles (nuclear or otherwise) to the US or Japan etc are at best a slight worry given that the two countries couldn't shoot them down. His threats against South Korea in terms of conventional attack are serious but if he started that I doubt the rest of the world would have a problem with the US or China turning the whole country into a parking lot very quickly.
To my mind this is bizarre theatre. He needs to be gone and I am surprised he is still in power. Must suit someone's view of what they want geopolitically because outside the US, China and Russia both have well trained special forces who could make Kim J's demise look like a shaving accident.
It is all very strange to my mind.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 28 Apr 2017, 06:55:20

I think the simplest explanation is that he is bat shit crazy. He grew up in a world where he was treated as a God and came to belive it.

From his point of view not much has changed. Maybe he is in denial, many of us here see string denial in our culture, maybe he and his country just have a different form of denial.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 28 Apr 2017, 14:16:38

Newfie wrote:I think the simplest explanation is that he is bat shit crazy. He grew up in a world where he was treated as a God and came to belive it.


Communists are not crazy. They just have very different politics then we are used to.

The North Korean Communist regime, as is common in fascist and communist dictatorships, glorifies the great leader in order to get the masses to follow the party line. Again, this is nothing new or unusual---its pretty much standard practice in communist countries.

Cheers!

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All hail the great leader of the people, Kim Il-Sung
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Cog » Fri 28 Apr 2017, 17:27:28

Breaking news with few details.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/28/north-ko ... eport.html

North Korea test-fired a ballistic missile on Saturday in local time, Korean news service Yonhap reported citing South Korea's military.

Yonhap reported that the test appears to have failed.

The incident comes as the United States reconsiders its strategy in dealing with the isolated nation.
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 28 Apr 2017, 21:20:55

Plant,

Was Stalin crazy?

Hitler?
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Re: U.S. Navy sends strike group toward North Korea

Unread postby Cog » Fri 28 Apr 2017, 22:02:36

Crazy not in the looney tunes sense but crazy in the sense of making very bad judgments. Kim is probably assuming that President Trump will act like every president that his country has ever locked horns with.
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