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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 03:32:40

kiwichick wrote:@ mbs.....in English ??

sorry maths isn't my strong suit!!!


Sure
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/e ... ls.394831/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkiCPMjpysc
The rest follows... :idea: 8) :!:

Because it is true C²=A²+B²

https://services.math.duke.edu/~bray/Pr ... cture1.pdf

x²= a²+ b²+c²+e²........ has allways a infinite solution in natural numbers
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 06:27:37

kiwichick wrote:Nuclear is not the answer .....better connectivity with other countries like Norway and Iceland ...Hydro and geothermal ....and Spain / Portugal / Italy / Greece / Morrocco/ Tunisia .....Solar ....is a far better option

France's nuclear fleet is aging and at risk from rising temperatures ...... if cooling water is not cold enough the plants can't operate.....and solar/batteries are constantly improving output and reducing cost

the risk of failure of nuclear plants , combined with the decommissioning cost makes nuclear a non starter in MHO



Lots of peoples OPINION about nuclear comes from the science denier left. You really should educate yourself on the real facts before forming such opinions.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby kiwichick » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 12:18:31

@ T .....I'd suggest there are a significant number of people in Japan , for example , you are not keen on nuclear .....and we are yet to see what the fallout from Fukushima ends up costing....

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/fuk ... fic-ocean/
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby Cog » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 12:25:22

Anti-nuc folks are very predictable.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:00:08

kiwichick wrote:@ T .....I'd suggest there are a significant number of people in Japan , for example , you are not keen on nuclear .....and we are yet to see what the fallout from Fukushima ends up costing....

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/fuk ... fic-ocean/


Yes and so what? You prefer we return to pre-industrial levels of energy use? We can do that, but world population will have to be reduced by 75 percent first and 95 percent of us will be working as stoop farm labor to allow the 4 percent of craftsmen to provide the 1 percent 'leadership' with whatever luxuries they can.

Outside of Hydropower none of the renewable's are capable of replacing fossil fuels. Solar works in the day in the best locations but not at night no matter where you are. Wind requires a heck of a lot more maintenance than advocates normally admit. Wave and tidal power also require a lot of upkeep just like wind with the added cost of corrosion resistance and the problem of rising sea levels.

It is time to set aside the utopian view of solartopia we have been force fed since the mid 1970's by anti-nuclear activists. In the real world the arguments do not hold up. Solar has been getting large subsidies from governments all over for over 40 years, but the battery problem has not been solved and the world population now is nearly double what it was in 1975.

Nuclear power works. Nuclear power is the most regulated energy source in the history of energy sources, and despite all the bureaucratic mangling and expense it still works. The CO2 emission of nuclear are minuscule compared to fossil fuels and smaller than several of the renewable options so frequently touted as 'solutions'.

Letting the public be fooled by hype artists in the media who made inexcusable claims about its dangers is a failing of government. By excluding nuclear power from the zero emission power supply lists the Obama Administration has caused several working power plants to be shut down because the owners were able to cash in on natural gas subsidies. The purpose of the natural gas subsidy was to get power producers to switch away from coal, which has the highest CO2 emissions. Unfortunately the way the law was written and enacted the profits from switching from Nuclear which received no zero emission credits, to Natural Gas, which emits half the CO2 of Coal, have encouraged several power plants to be shuttered, including Vermont Yankee, that had decades more useful service life with no risk and no CO2 emissions.

I am pro nuclear because I am an environmentalist, and I am sick to death of all the lies and distortions used by so called environmental organizations to push their white elitist utopian agenda despite the fact that science proves it will not work without killing off BILLIONS of people in the third world. That racist crap turns my stomach.

Germany shutting down their nuclear power plants is causing real harm to real people and real ecosystems. Why don't you care? What is wrong with your heart that you hate the environment so much you will distort real science to keep on with the killing spree?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Sun 15 Jan 2017, 14:10:34

Hey Tanada

Mother nature rules so have a look and learn what mother nature is doing:

Solar Power and storing "techniques"

E²=(pC)²+(mC²)²

You are indeed a solar energy collecting and transforming mammal eating rice potatoes or wheat/meat

If earths life is possible with "low energy flows"/m² why should we expand energy flows which are destroying our habitat direct or indirect?

We must use nuclear power (fuel) to travel into the deep space and find new worlds for us very soon.
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Time is running out.

>410 ppm C02 in 2017
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 07:12:12

Germanys CO2 Budjet for 2017 is exterminated
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/deutsc ... n-101.html
But who cares the Greatest Coalition ever is the dirtiest ever in Germany.

THE COAL MUST BE BURNED

SO WE ARE ALL GOING TO CLIMATE HELL

DOOMSDAY
https://energytransition.org/2017/03/ge ... by-a-mile/

Image
HEIL! MERKEL!

MAD MAX IS COMING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNWi-ZWL3c
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:41:27

M_B_S wrote:Germanys CO2 Budjet for 2017 is exterminated
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/deutsc ... n-101.html
But who cares the Greatest Coalition ever is the dirtiest ever in Germany.

THE COAL MUST BE BURNED

SO WE ARE ALL GOING TO CLIMATE HELL

DOOMSDAY
https://energytransition.org/2017/03/ge ... by-a-mile/

Image
HEIL! MERKEL!

MAD MAX IS COMING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNWi-ZWL3c



From the short time horizon political point of view Coal burning is great. It employs a lot of people, it generates a lot of taxes, and the main consequences are far enough down the road they can ignore them.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:28:48

@ Tanada

Thats why Merkel is no "Great Leader" @all

When you know something you have to do the correct thing not the opportune thing.

Even if this means you lost political power.

She knows and understands the facts and she failed.

Merkel and her coalition is guilty when millions and later billions will suffer.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ic6lj0SSew
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby cephalotus » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 17:40:24

Tanada wrote:Lots of very impressive graphs at link below quote demonstrating just how stupid it was for Germany to adopt the anti-nuclear path. Electricity in Germany is now twice as expensive and three times as dirty in Germany as it is in France where Nuclear Fission provides nearly all baseload capacity and allows the country to export cheap electricity to all of its neighbors that have turned away from fission....


Sure?

http://reneweconomy.com.au/france-cant- ... and-17962/
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby cephalotus » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 17:47:44

regardingpo wrote:
1. it's not energy, it's electricity (this is their favorite "mistake")


Depends on the data. Energy is not the same as electricity. You just need to read.

2. a lot of it comes from biomass which is worse than burning coal

Wood accounts for a majority of renewable energy generation in Poland and Finland, and nearly 40 percent in Germany...


40% of its end energy, mainly for heating homes. Wood is only used in very small quantities to generat electricity in Germany.

Btw, we are one of the few countries in the world where forrest and the wood in them is growing signfificantly year by year...

so burning wood for dmestic heating8where it is used in Germany) is more or less carbon neutral.

Our renewable electricity(!) btw is mainly from wind, solar and biogas. (methane).
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 17:51:46

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ne-thought

Europe’s Coal Power Is Going up in Smoke -- Fast
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby cephalotus » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 17:58:14

Jupidu wrote:... After the abandonment of a open brown coal pit the terrain can't be used for decades because of the danger of landslides.


Burning coal is never a good idea f you care about CO2 emissions. No doubt about it.

But if you take "some" money you can make quite nice things with the holes you digged:

Image

http://www.lausitzerseenland.de/de.html

I usually spend some summer days each year cycling around the new lakes there and camping. It think they made it quite nicely.

Afaik Germany is one of the few (the only) country in the world that rebuilt nuclear power plants, that rebuilt Uranium mines (Wismut AG) and the rebuilds coal mines ta such a scale...
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 19 Apr 2017, 18:04:09

this year solar capacity will overtake coal for the first time in Western Europe

(from link above)
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 20 Apr 2017, 05:13:29

@ cephalotos

No the coal pit lakes are ecological dead dispite some bugs nothing could live in it for decades.

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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby cephalotus » Thu 20 Apr 2017, 08:10:39

@MBS

As often you are talking about things you only partially understand.

Yes, some lakes are acid at the beginning, that's not unespected, but they are far from "ecological dead" and a normal pH can be (and is) established with some maintanace.

Situation when flooding just started in the 90s: http://www-docs.b-tu.de/fg-gewaessersch ... 2_ar_3.pdf (p. 25ff.)

Situation now: https://www.lmbv.de/index.php/guete-von-lmbv-seen.html

17 out of 30 lakes already have a good water quality just a few years after flooding them.

(and btw, of course you can bath and swimm in those lakes, also in those where it isn't allowed yet. Obviously at your own risk in such cases.)

I'm heavily opposed to talks about burning huge amounts of lignite until 2040 or even 2050 (maybe keep some power plants as a "cold reserve", if technological possible), but on the other hand the global climate is already fucked anyway. Tar sands in Canada, gas fracking in US, deep sea oil in the gulf of Mexico, lignite in Germay, None(!) of that stuff should be allowed to be burned if you really care about limiting global warming at +4K.
+2K has already become complete utopia no matter what we do.

But I'm also opposed to nuclear power plants in Germany. If the US or China wants to build them that's not my problem, as long as they are far away and as long as they pay for a reasonable" waste managment of their radioactive stuff.

Having one reactor melting every 10.000 reactor years so far translates to an average time of 25 years between catastrophal events now with ca. 400+ (aging) reactors in the world. I visited Chernobyl last summer and I don't want to have something similar in Germany.

And this accident rate and the generally super high costs of nuclear power generation, the still unsolved problems (after 60 years!) with waste managemnet and the risk of proliferation to terrorists is for only 2% of global energy demand! To make an impact on the energy sector the world would need at least 10 times more nuclear reactors!

Who would pay for them?
Where to get the uranium?
How to avoid proliferation?
What to to with an dramatic accident every 2.5 years?

It's a good idea to avoid that nuclear shit in Germany asap especially at times when noone(!) in the world has shown any interest in really limiting global warming.

Germany (together with a handful of other countries like US, China, Denmark, Spain) paid billions to make solar and wind energy cost effective for the rest of the world. That's already much more than what most others have done so far.

So nuclear shutdown first (because this is the highest risk) and coal shutdown second. (Maybe keep an reserve, because situation to Putin's Russia and Erdogans Turkey needs also be considered for natural gas import security)
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Thu 20 Apr 2017, 09:24:06

@ cephalotus

Dont fool a Peak Oiler its not possible

https://www.amazon.de/Acidic-Pit-Lakes- ... 3642293832

Acidic Pit Lakes: The Legacy of Coal and Metal Surface Mines (Environmental Science and Engineering)
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby Tanada » Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:59:25

Is it not fascinating that an intelligent human being can completely ignore the massive chemical contamination of the environment that comes from burning coal, and yet hold at the same time a completely unintelligent fear of radiation?

Chemical pollution kills thousands perhaps as many as hundreds of thousands of people every year when compared to world population. Nuclear fission power has killed virtually zero in any year. But the intelligent consumers assumes the chemical poisoning is just part of life and cowers in fear at the image of clean safe nuclear power sneakily killing them despite all evidence to the contrary.

We really are a dumb species.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby cephalotus » Thu 20 Apr 2017, 11:23:33

Tanada wrote:Is it not fascinating that an intelligent human being can completely ignore the massive chemical contamination of the environment that comes from burning coal, ...
Chemical pollution kills thousands perhaps as many as hundreds of thousands of people every year when compared to world population...


I do not disagree that burning coal pollutes.

I disagree, that you always generate wastelands or biologial dead lakes for many deacdes.

This is nonsense.

I look at nuclear power from a cost perspective (including all costs!) and from that side it is just horrible. Everything else is much cheaper.

We have 60 years of nuclear power and it recieved next to nothing positive, but large amounts of radioactive waste, aging power plants, plutonium stockpiles in many countries and at least three large contaminated (in this caes really for deacdes) regions.

Why should an intelligent human be pro fission power plants in a highly populated regions?

Build them in the US if you like to do so. And we will shut down ours and there is nothing that you can do about it. (be happy, you will have more uranium for yourself)
This shit is already expensive enough that it has become unpayable for even large energy companies.

I predict that companies that will have the experience to rebuild that stuff will see a huge demand for their expertise in the coming decades.


New nuclear power plants? Likey Hinkley C? A good joke.

New offshore wind plants have subsidies of 0,0ct/kWh in Germany now, Hinkley C wants subsidies at around 13ct/kWh + Inflation for 35 years (and you still have to pay an unknown amount for the waste and there is still no insurance available for those, so you have to include that cost, too).

Sooner or later we will stop burning coal, but we will stop nuclear first.

Like it or not.

The world climate is already completly fucked, because not a single country in the world is willing to keep their fossile fuels untouched in the ground as long as it is profitable to burn them.

I would be the first person that would vote for a global tax on CO2.

Until than we all will have to prepare for a much hotter world for next Generations and at least we will hopefully not have to prepare additionally for the next nuclear desaster within our own borders.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Tue 09 May 2017, 06:26:34

Germany: The youth is fighting for survival under Merkels "Great Coalitions" dirty policy

Image
Female eco warrior fighting for the forest trees against Merkels stupid lignite coal policy.

Meanwhile the drought in Germany is so critical that the farmers harvest 2017 will drop massiv this year.
Image

http://www.sr.de/sr/home/nachrichten/pa ... en100.html

Image

The climate Mad Max scenario in Germany gets reality under Merkel
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWNWi-ZWL3c
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.

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