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Catalyst for economic collapse

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:06:34

It's similar in mass transit.
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby evilgenius » Mon 13 Mar 2017, 12:39:59

Cog wrote:At a certain level its understandable. The benefits of fixing a road system or bridge that services hundreds of thousands of commuters a day outweighs the needs of a few hundred who are serviced in a rural area. But what I have seen is perfectly serviceable urban roads and bridges that just need repair versus a complete new build or other expensive option.

I can get on this high horse when it comes to the issue of whether the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I don't think that's true. I think the issue is about right-of-way, how we determine that politically when we spend resources. My own state has a problem with it too. We spend a lot of money on city infrastructure, on big projects. More are in the pipeline still. Some are going on right now that have taken money that could have been used to build much needed interchanges outside of the cities.

I live in a mountainous state. Over time the connecting roadways that could have been built out to tie various roadways that go to the same places together, allowing drivers to get around traffic or blockages, haven't been built out. Only the major roadways have received very much consideration. Traffic is bad in and out of the mountains. Even at that, those needs have had to take a back seat to what happens in the big cities. Actually, we only have one really big city, but some of the smaller cities also get that same kind of consideration. The really big city is king. The mountains are expected to go to it, and the people who live on the plains are expected to go through it to get to the mountains. There's a lot of sense in that, but it also sets up problems.

People who live outside of the city are always getting told that the money they thought was coming isn't because those city projects had to be done. And that's one place where what I am saying about right-of-way becomes an issue. A road analogy, might as well use one here, that expresses what I mean would be how people who want to make a left turn almost always are the lowest person on the totem pole when it comes to right-of-way. When things happen at a four way non-signalized intersection they may have to wait for the next cycle to complete in order to get their turn. What is happening effectively, though, is that the process is overlooking that they have a call at all. Because this is about politics, it is like the person waiting to make a left is having to sit literally all day. I wonder if this doesn't refer back to the issue over trust I was talking about, that when it isn't there we have a problem recognizing the lower rights holder's calls? And, again, how affluence distorts our world view such that we tend to think it is the end of the world when we can't get what we want, such that waiting for someone else's rights to get exercised seems like a misuse of resources?
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Revi » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 09:59:15

I wonder if they will raise the debt ceiling today? We need to borrow our 2,739,726,027 a day so that we can continue our unsustainable lifestyle. It's not negotiable!
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 18 Mar 2017, 15:50:56

Is this what I have been worrying about?

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN16P0FN

Financial leaders of the world's biggest economies dropped a pledge to keep global trade free and open, acquiescing to an increasingly protectionist United States after a two-day meeting failed to yield a compromise.

Breaking a decade-long tradition of endorsing open trade, G20 finance ministers and central bankers made only a token reference to trade in their communique on Saturday, a clear defeat for host nation Germany, which fought the new U.S. government's attempts to water down past commitments.

In the new U.S. administration's biggest clash yet with the international community, G20 finance chiefs also removed from their statement a pledge to finance the fight against climate change, an anticipated outcome after U.S. President Donald Trump called global warming a "hoax".
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Revi » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 19:47:51

Here is an interesting article about the Debt Ceiling. It looks like it might be a mess!
https://dailyreckoning.com/countdown-to-crisis/
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 23:24:02

Revi wrote:Here is an interesting article about the Debt Ceiling. It looks like it might be a mess!
https://dailyreckoning.com/countdown-to-crisis/

The main surprise would be if it WEREN'T a mess, given the irresponsibility and inability to compromise for the common good endemic to Capitol Hill in recent years. And this is a problem definitely owned by both sides of the aisle.
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 01:59:33

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
Revi wrote:Here is an interesting article about the Debt Ceiling. It looks like it might be a mess!
https://dailyreckoning.com/countdown-to-crisis/

The main surprise would be if it WEREN'T a mess, given the irresponsibility and inability to compromise for the common good endemic to Capitol Hill in recent years. And this is a problem definitely owned by both sides of the aisle.

Thank OS, for that measured ,moderate and fair comment. This is sorely missing on this site with people entrenched in their positions
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 20:43:24

This article by Ugo Bardi,min our home page, speaks to my fears. Financial collapse brings on starvation due to trade barriers. The USA and Canada should be reasonably OK, Europe not so much. For countries in Armfrica and Asia may be very bleak. Unless they try to forcibly take what we have. Russia may have a tough time of it.

http://peakoil.com/generalideas/zombie- ... our-future
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 25 Mar 2017, 08:13:50

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-2 ... -carefully
Good article from ZH about Geo-political flashpoints or triggers. Any stand out?
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby evilgenius » Sat 25 Mar 2017, 11:37:10

I don't think the zombie meme is so much about overpopulation as it is about polarization and lack of proper management. It is about overpopulation, I should say, but the response is channeled through polarization, and tinged with a desire for management that doesn't exist.

First of all, you have this conservative vs. liberal divide, and not just within the US. At every turn each side sees the other as some kind of monolithic horde. Each member of the horde is indistinguishable from the others.

Secondly, the expectation of management may be an accident of history. The Cold War and the post WWII era laid down an expectation of behavior on the part of politicians that set bounds within which they could act. They had to get along. They had to come to consensus. Without the dire threat of missiles coming over the horizon any day, and with the diminishing of the impact upon personal experience of the taboo generating fascist ideals and philosophy, the world feels the lack of management. Only there was never management, but a common understanding which passed for it.

There is no illuminati. There was never an evil cabal of industrialists or super-rich secretly controlling the world. There was only ever a collective understanding of the way things should work. That understanding came with some of the seeds of its own destruction, as almost universally people have always wanted communism to work even though it doesn't. They have always wished for something other than capitalism to replace the current order. They embrace capitalism, however, recognizing it as the common sense answer. This has caused a kind of fugue state within the mind of man, as he has become less willing to admit the faults that capitalism actually does have, and less able to admit his own moral voice into the argument. Therefore, capitalism has become an unmanaged force, running rampant under the free market label. Morality runs a permanent second to common sense operation. Anyone who decides that morality is more important to them has outlets, such as the abortion argument, to assuage them. If your moral sense is more developed, then you can talk about tax structures or opportunity, just don't talk about unions. Never admit that we have to arrive at consensus in order to properly manage our world, that would be anathema to the common sense answer because it could potentially imperil it. Solutions that involve both conservative and liberal ideals, honoring both, are not on the table.

What capitalism does as the population it deals with grows is very interesting. It concentrates power at the top. And why shouldn't it? But doesn't this create a wider gulf between the haves and have-nots? Of course it does, but that isn't important to capitalism, unless it is under a wider management. There are probably as many conservatives headed into poverty as liberals under this concentration, but each side is weakened in its own way and subject, therefore, in differing ways to propaganda issued by those who hold the concentrated power, via politics. Each side jabbers at the other, and the old framework under which some kind of management emerged spontaneously falls into more and more disorder. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The trouble is that freedom won't come from a revolution, that would only result in the new boss meeting the old boss. Freedom can only come from managing the situation.
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Re: Catalyst for economic collapse

Unread postby Squilliam » Sat 25 Mar 2017, 15:49:55

onlooker wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-24/watch-these-geopolitical-flashpoints-carefully
Good article from ZH about Geo-political flashpoints or triggers. Any stand out?


I'm not sure I agree with it really. It is easy to ascribe most of what happened in the ME to Western/U.S. actors, but the reality itself is a mix of different factors. It was a one/two/three punch of economic, energy and ecological problems that caused the Arab Spring. Our involvement in this really was to help expand the conflict by stupidly supplying weapons and support to civil war actors. Everything is fine until the subsidised bread and energy becomes unaffordable -- and then you have problems. It wasn't ideology that brought millions to the streets, and the same would have happened if they were democracies, but problems that dearly affected the poor.
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