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THE Global Cooling Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby timmac » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 03:04:18

BobInget wrote:(The red type face is a dead-give-away, IMO. Only the totally insecure or 'agent provocateurs' seek to rile up imagined 'enemies'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur
.


So using Red means I am this :

An agent provocateur (French for "inciting agent") is an undercover agent who acts to entice another person to commit an illegal or rash act or falsely implicate them in partaking in an illegal act. An agent provocateur may be acting out of own sense of nationalism/duty or may be employed by the police or other entity to discredit or harm another group (e.g., peaceful protest or demonstration) by provoking them to commit a crime - thus, undermining the protest or demonstration as whole.

To prevent infiltration by agents provocateurs,[1] the organizers of large or controversial assemblies may deploy and coordinate demonstration marshals, also called stewards.
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby dolanbaker » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 05:38:47

No, it just means that you're a pain in the arse as your posts are hard on the eyes!
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 09:04:15

North America has had two cool years, the rest of the world has not. It is rather arrogant to call North America, The World, is it not?
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby dissident » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 09:15:40

Tanada wrote:North America has had two cool years, the rest of the world has not. It is rather arrogant to call North America, The World, is it not?


But this is the routine coverage of climate and weather in the US media. They always focus on some regional pattern and ignore the rest of the world. One result of this retarded coverage is that people expect warming to occur uniformly over the planet. This is physically impossible because we have fluid circulation which transports heat and is driven by heat gradients. The media is a source of ignorance in the modern world.
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 12:47:05

Plantagenet wrote:Similary, this pause will end and global warming will resume unless we stop putting CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphere. And, given the incompetence poltiical leadership in the US and elsewhere, this isn't likely to happen.


OK, do you really, truly, stand by this position? If so, can you finally rebuke your support of Sarah "Drill baby drill" Palin from 2008? Are you also willing to write off your home-state Alaska's oil-wealth in order to save the planet?

If you can't do these things, then it's not so much the incompetent political leadership that is at fault, but rather the support hypocrites like you provide that creates resistance in Washington.

In a democracy, our leaders can not save us from ourselves if it means dragging the country into measures the voters won't accept. Think of all the republican pleas to disband the EPA, for instance, which was founded by Republican Richard Nixon.

I just am sick and tired of the rhetorical cognitive dissonance.
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 12:54:44

timmac wrote:So using Red means I am this :


No, you're a troll.

Trolls are more interested in being the center of attention than engaging in a genuine search for the truth. And usually trolls don't, down deep, believe their own kool-aid (like Planty being an AGW believer on one hand, and a Sarah Palin supporter on the other). They just latch onto a position because by moving across the grain they will encounter the most resistance. So to hang out in a worldsend like this and push any sort of don't-worry-be-happy agenda regarding the biosphere is trolling, plain and simple.

I'm happy to engage people on the other side of the fence, but only when they actually show they're capable of listening and digesting facts. Trolls don't do this. They fall back onto various hackneyed rhetorical fallacies.

Since there is no way to enforce any rules of conduct, this goes on unchcecked in forums, so the only endgame is to just disengage.
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby joewp » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 15:01:47

Click that ol' "Add foe" button and you won't see his posts no more.

It's truly refreshing and saves you a lot of time. I ignored rockdoc123 several years ago and feel better about it all the time.
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby timmac » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 15:05:08

joewp wrote:Click that ol' "Add foe" button and you won't see his posts no more.

It's truly refreshing and saves you a lot of time. I ignored rockdoc123 several years ago and feel better about it all the time.



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Need I say anymore...
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Re: Is There Global Cooling?

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 13 Sep 2014, 15:10:06

"Trolls are more interested in being the center of attention"

Right, so quit giving him the attention he craves. If no one responds to his idiocy, his threads will quickly drop down out of sight and blessedly out of mind.

Keep bumping him and he gets the pleasure of seeing his idiocy constantly at the top of the thread.

(And no, I didn't bump this; it was already at the top.)

All those who recognized tim to be the idiotic, attention-seeking troll that he is, please stop bumping his thread and giving him attention.

Thanks,
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Re: Exxon knew about GW in 1980's

Unread postby Peak_Yeast » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 14:05:42

Oh happy fossil fuels - you have been blamed for so much. - But now you will be vindicated as the saviour of humankind for those few decades that it has left....

Headline: New small iceage coming in 2030.
http://jyllands-posten.dk/international ... id-i-2030/
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Re: THE Global Cooling Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 12 Jul 2015, 14:57:57

Already completely discussed and debunked.

Let's not respond to this and let it drop off the page as it deserves (unless, of course, the mods in their infinite wisdom want to add it to the suddenly growing list of stickies!! :lol: ).
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Air pollution is a hoax: the new denier mantra

Unread postby dissident » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 08:50:22

https://newrepublic.com/article/141260/ ... ate-denial

At last month’s Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), during a little-noticed panel on climate change and environmental regulation, air pollution denial was rampant and went unchallenged. Steve Milloy, formerly a paid flack for the tobacco and fossil fuel industries and member of Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency transition team, argued that excessive air pollution is not linked to premature death. “My particular interest is air pollution,” Milloy said, alleging that EPA’s scientists are inherently biased. “These people validate and rubber-stamp the EPA’s conclusion that air pollution kills people.” Milloy also said, baselessly, that EPA scientists are “paying for the science it wants,” and that Trump must change the research process at the agency.


The same scam by the same flacks. I guess all the true believers on this forum will quickly goose-step in tune to this new lie.
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Re: Air pollution is a hoax: the new denier mantra

Unread postby AdamB » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 10:19:59

dissident wrote:https://newrepublic.com/article/141260/air-pollution-denial-new-climate-denial

At last month’s Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), during a little-noticed panel on climate change and environmental regulation, air pollution denial was rampant and went unchallenged. Steve Milloy, formerly a paid flack for the tobacco and fossil fuel industries and member of Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency transition team, argued that excessive air pollution is not linked to premature death. “My particular interest is air pollution,” Milloy said, alleging that EPA’s scientists are inherently biased. “These people validate and rubber-stamp the EPA’s conclusion that air pollution kills people.” Milloy also said, baselessly, that EPA scientists are “paying for the science it wants,” and that Trump must change the research process at the agency.


The same scam by the same flacks. I guess all the true believers on this forum will quickly goose-step in tune to this new lie.


You seriously want to defend the EPAs credibility when it comes to ANY decision making? Like, you know, protecting water supplies?

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Hey! But the EPA will make good after polluting wonderful Rocky Mountain watersheds, right? Of course not!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /96555846/

You want to buy into their "science"? Maybe you weren't around when their "science" near Pavillion was laughed out of the geologic community, but I was.

Let them enforce rules on keeping water and air clean, and stop contributing to the pollution, coverup and unaccountability of one, and thank GOODNESS similar incompetence on the other was stopped in time by Trump.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/0303 ... ate-change
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Re: Air pollution is a hoax: the new denier mantra

Unread postby dissident » Sun 19 Mar 2017, 10:26:24

You seriously expect me to take you seriously when you attribute aerosol science to the EPA? That is so utterly clueless that it is hard to imagine the level of ignorance. The EPA is literally a collection of lawyers that does zero science. Yet all you drones think that science emanates from the EPA. Even NOAA and NASA are limited in their science impact since the research is primarily done at universities and institutes by independent researchers.

You really should put the blame on the NSF for all the science you hate so much.
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Re: THE Global Cooling Thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 22 Dec 2017, 13:24:32

The haze of sulfur dioxide emitted by the rapidly growing number of coal burnng power stations in India is causing a significant global Dimming aka Global Cooling effect.

While the world has been preoccupied with reducing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which is generated by burning fossil fuels, sulphur dioxide (SO₂) emissions have not received the same attention. Produced by burning coal, wood, petrol, diesel or farm stubble, SO₂ forms a large part of the pollution haze enveloping cities in northern India every winter.

Most of the SO₂ in Indian skies is emitted when power plants burn coal to produce electricity. Typically, coal contains 3% of sulphur, but coal from Assam in India is known to have higher content.

Now, a new study by the University of Maryland shows that India has caught up with China as the biggest emitter of sulphur dioxide and is poised to overtake it. It shows that India and China are on “opposite trajectories” so far as these emissions are concerned. Since 2007, emissions in China have declined by three-quarters, while those in India have increased by half. See: India’s coal sector seeks to avoid emission norms

Sulphur dioxide harms human health, besides causing a haze. When it combines with moisture in the atmosphere, it forms acid rain, which is what caused a major concern in the 1970s regarding the threat to the marble façade of the Taj Mahal in Agra, a fear which persists today.

Emission data

The US researchers collected emission data from inventories of the number of factories, power plants, automobiles and other contributors to SO₂ levels. These findings were then enhanced due to advances in satellite measurements. For SO₂, the researchers have used the Ozone Monitoring Instrument (OMI), which first produced evidence that China had started to reduce emissions in coal-fired power plants by installing flue gas desulphurisation (FGD) devices, along with reductions in such emissions from US plants.

They state: “More recently, a new technique that combines wind and improved SO2 data was employed to develop an OMI-based emission catalogue for nearly 500 sources around the globe. This technique enabled the detection of ~40 sources missing from the conventional bottom-up inventories.”

Satellite images for China and India contrast their 2005 and 2016 positions. In 2005, China has a “vertical column density” of SO₂ in bright crimson and even purple, depicting heavy emissions in eastern regions, while India has tiny swathes of green in eastern and central parts of the country. By 2016, however, the situation has changed, with the same Chinese areas now red-orange, while India’s affected areas have grown and have turned purple-red in density.

In 2005, almost the entire North China plain was affected, with two provinces particularly acute due to several power plants as well as coking and cement industries. Eleven years later, there were virtually no hot spots there, while the two provinces recorded sizeable reductions.

The researchers used the OMI data to extrapolate each country’s total emissions. SO₂ emissions from China peaked at 36.6 million tonnes (Mt) a year in 2007 and have since been generally decreasing. At 8.4 Mt, the level in 2016 is a quarter of that in 2005. “The decrease reflects stricter pollution control measures, coupled with a gradual shift to other, non-coal-based energy sources, and the recent slowdown of the Chinese economy,” say the researchers. “Since the early 2000s, the Chinese government has introduced, for example, policies to reduce SO2 emissions and a new national air quality standard for fine particles. Electricity generation in China grew by more than 100 per cent during 2005–2015, but coal consumption increased by ~50%. The brief period of emission growth in 2009–2011 can probably be attributed to government stimulus in response to the global financial crisis of 2007–2008.”

Emissions growth

By contrast, India’s emissions have steadily growth throughout this period. For 2016, the emissions from India are roughly the same as China’s. “If the current trends continue, India will emit significantly more SO2 than China in the coming years… We arrive at the same conclusion that India is becoming, if it is not already, the world’s top SO2 emitting country,” they estimate.

The study also measured the population exposed to SO₂ levels. In the past 10 years, such loading diminished by a factor of five in China, but it increased by a half in India. In China, over 450 million people were exposed to very harmful levels of SO2 in 2013, but this number decreased to 99 million in 2016. At a lower level, the 190 million in China in 2013 fell to 13 million in 2016, a “remarkable drop” of over 90%.

In India, 0.7 million people were exposed to the lower level of SO2 in 2013. In just three years, however, this has grown to 3.8 million. The exposure in India is limited because the current hot spots are relatively less-densely populated, though that may change over time as electricity consumption grows and spreads throughout the country.

There is a slight blip in this scenario, however. According to the just-released 2017 Global Carbon Budget, “The most significant factor in the resumption of global emissions growth is the projected 3.5 per cent increase in China’s emissions (which would include some SO₂). This is the result of higher energy demand, particularly from the industrial sector, along with a decline in hydropower use because of below-average rainfall. China’s coal consumption grew by 3%… The 2017 growth may result from economic stimulus from the Chinese government, and may not continue in the years ahead.”

“The causes of continued coal use are clearly the growing energy needs. We are not alone in this. Even Germany is using coal doing despite tall claims of how progressive it is on climate action. Renewables are growing at impressive rates in India and China but both remain the most polluted countries. Already more than a million deaths are counted as premature and attributed to air pollution. What’s going on in Delhi is an example even though it is not directly related to coal burning. But a lack of power to dispose of crop residue in a more benign way and not having enough electrical vehicles are part of the bigger picture of why we continue to rely on coal,” Raghu Murtugudde, also from the University of Maryland, told indiaclimatedialogue.net. “The consequences are that even when rich countries wean themselves off coal, we will be tempted to continue since they will export coal at cheaper rates! The US already did that to Germany under Obama who was also climate-friendly.”

Widespread exposure

“We are on our own when it comes to our air and water quality. We must note the population-weighted emissions increasing, which indicates higher exposure to a larger population. This paper does not get into the circulation changes by season so we may even be getting pollution sweeping in from China during the northeast monsoon,” he said. “The India Meteorological Department and Indian Institute of Tropical Meteorology have to get more seriously into modelling and forecasting air pollution, especially remembering that the aerosols (airborne particulates) are already found to be partially responsible for solar dimming, reduced land-ocean thermal contrast and the resultant decrease in mean monsoons. The remote impacts that control the widespread floods and the mean monsoons as well as the potential for injection of pollution from remote locations make it even more important that we stay on top of what we can control — like our own clean energy and environmental regulations and forecasting.”

“The northeast monsoon (or Asian monsoon in general) may transport some pollutants emitted from China to India, but the effects are unlikely to be important for air quality near the surface in India, since the Tibet Plateau will block the near surface air flow. Also, SO₂ is a short-lived pollutant, so what we observed from satellites is mostly related to local emissions,” Can Li, lead author of the study from the University of Maryland and NASA Goddard Space Flight Centre, told indiaclimatedialogue.net. “The transport of air pollution from China mainly affects regions to the east (Korea, Japan, and further downwind including the US, there are hundreds of studies on this subject), and in some cases Southeast Asia.”

More than two-thirds of India’s electricity generation capacity comes from thermal power plants, with about 85% of the country’s thermal power generation being coal-based. The 10 biggest thermal power stations operating in India are all coal-fired, with seven of them owned and operated by state-run NTPC.

Plants which are the biggest offenders in central-eastern India include the Vindhyachal plant in Singrauli district, Madhya Pradesh, the largest in the country with an installed capacity of 4,760MW; Talcher Super Thermal Power Station, Odisha; Sipat Thermal Power Plant, Chhattisgarh; NTPC Ramagundam, Andhra Pradesh; Korba Super Thermal Power Plant, Chhattisgarh and Jharsuguda Thermal Power Plant, Odisha. These six are among the 10 biggest power plants in the country and they are located close to coalmines.

Faustian bargain

“There is a Faustian bargain in that, to avoid catastrophic outcomes, we must cut emissions very rapidly, particularly from coal. However, this removes the aerosols (associated with SO₂), which will lead to a one-off increase in temperature and exacerbate the risk of catastrophic outcomes,” Ian Dunlop of the Climate Change Task Force in Australia and former Chair, Australian Coal Association, told indiaclimatedialogue.net. “But the longer action is delayed, the worse the bargain becomes, so we have to act to cut emissions as rapidly as possible.”

“It is particularly important for India to act as soon as possible, and to avoid the high emission path which China followed, as the world has run out of time if we wish to have any realistic chance of staying below 2 degrees Celsius.(In the 2015 Paris climate agreement, all countries agreed to keep mean global temperature rise within two degrees Celsius from the pre-industrial level). You are of course already seeing exceptionally high temperatures in parts of India during the summer months.”


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