[sparky]

.
China navy would be swept of the sea surface in a month ,
China has one carrier used for training ,and another being planned ..big deal
their submarine drones are more of a worry
the choke point of the Indonesian straits and the Japan /Philippines gap would be the forward battle ,
Atomics are only good to defend one's homeland ,Should China use its strategic nukes ,
it would be De-industrialised back to the First Emperor level
nuclear warfare doesn't target civilians ,
it target strategic military assets followed by the grid ,industries and transport infrastructures ,
the civilians then become a liability for the country

[Subjectivist]

.
China navy would be swept of the sea surface in a month ,
China has one carrier used for training ,and another being planned ..big deal
their submarine drones are more of a worry
the choke point of the Indonesian straits and the Japan /Philippines gap would be the forward battle ,
Atomics are only good to defend one's homeland ,Should China use its strategic nukes ,
it would be De-industrialised back to the First Emperor level
nuclear warfare doesn't target civilians ,
it target strategic military assets followed by the grid ,industries and transport infrastructures ,
the civilians then become a liability for the country

Uh Huh. So tell us all, what good does it do to send China back to the First Emporer level knowing that they would take the rest of us there with them on the way down?

[evilgenius]

You forgot USA invades Russia. That's the trend, and it has been since some time after the end of the Cold War. Before that there was a stalemate. Everything the USA is doing in the Middle East since then has been aimed eventually at Russia, from its position on Iran to its invasion of Iraq. Originally, in the immediate aftermath of the Cold War, it was believed that the Caspian Sea Region held all the oil that the USA would need to carry out hegemony, via the market based system, through the latter half of the 21st Century. The Caspian didn't pan out. Since that was realized is when Russia became the new target. Oh, and it's not necessarily military invasion that's being sought. It would be enough if they could get them to end Oligarchical rule and join in true open market competition and politics. It's only barring that where invasion becomes a serious topic.

[rockdoc123]

Many/most countries around the world are still mired in a post-conventional oil peak recession because demand was crushed . . . permentantly by $100 oil.

once again you come up with this complete BS argument. As has been shown countless times global demand has continued to rise as has global GDP. If you break it down by countries there are very few countries where oil demand has decreased and in those countries (as has been explained to you previously) the economic woes have zero to do with oil price (Greece, Italy, Spain all suffered economic problems unrelated to high oil prices).

You seem to live within your own echo chamber on this argument.

[Tanada]

Once again I must needs point out, Europe is NOT THE WORLD.

Europe and North America could stop existing as both producers and consumers of fossil fuels and the Middle East main exporters would still have markets to sell to in Asia and South America and Africa and Australia.

For someone who claims to be so open minded Pete you are horribly Eurocentric/Amercentric in your world view. Europe and North America combined barely contain 1/7th of the world population.

[Tanada]

Tanada, if the wealthy countries of Europe can not afford petroleum above $50/barrel than please try to explain how the other 164 countries will keep on. Please do not repeat the tired old saw that European oil-consumption collapse is a consequence of substitution, inefficiencies or electric vehicles

HOW is irrelevant, the fact is they are doing so.

[Subjectivist]

I noticed a typo, meant to say 'efficiencies'. I guess that one may consider walking, bike riding in the cold and rain, staying at home and moping, or being poverty stricken to be one type of substitution. But not a nice kind.

Seriously, there is scant evidence that electric (or other non-petrol fueled) private vehicles have made substantial inroads in Europe. There has been no significant public-transport systems installed since 2005, and telecommuting has not substantially changed behavior.kind of subsitution.

We do know that Europe, like most of the rest of the world, has been mired in a low-grade Depression for more than a decade, that European debt is not sustainable, will crash those economies sooner rather than later. We do know that this all started around 2005 when oil climbed above $147/barrel. I just join dots is all.

I reckon it is kind of like constellations in the night sky, if you look for stars to connect to shape a swan you can, but you can also shape a bear, or heck a Centaur if that is more to your liking. Truth is, the dots don't actually make shapes, we just arbitrarily try and fit them to the shapes we like or look for.