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A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt 2

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby kublikhan » Sun 25 Dec 2016, 21:28:54

I would not be using off grid storage to predict what will happen in the grid storage market. Pumped storage, CAES, flow batteries, these are all off the scale for off grid residential applications. However they are the very approaches being used for grid storage because of the large amounts of energy they can store. What is the best approach for off grid residential is not necessarily the best approach for utility scale.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 25 Dec 2016, 22:39:34

Grid storage? Great...can't wait till it happens. In the meantime two states stand out in the non-hydro alt energy category. And apparerntyly neither have meaningful grid storage. Might want to try to get the other 48 states ramping up their alts so they'll be ready to add all that economical storage. Chicken and egg: don't need much storage until there's a big source.
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 26 Dec 2016, 01:40:39

IF it's currently economical. With gas prices this low it might just be cheaper to build a peaking gas plant. Of course gas prices won't stay this low forever. But that is could comfort to the grid storage project that got denied because of cheap gas.

The installation of energy storage in the United States, especially at the scale of the electricity grid, might already be much further along if not for one major countervailing economic factor. The problem is that energy storage competes quite directly in many cases with natural gas, and in recent years, natural gas prices have been quite low. That’s been thwarting storage adoptions even though, in the long run, and especially from an environmental perspective, more storage would be a desirable option. “Since 2008,the energy storage industry has faced an unfortunate trend: as the new storage technologies have become ready for the market and the more mature technologies have lowered their costs, the decreasing cost of natural gas has been reducing the potential revenue of energy storage.”

Indeed, if you take the logic one step further, what this means is that the so-called “fracking” revolution, which has given us plentiful and affordable natural gas, may have thwarted a very different revolution — in energy storage. “Hydrofracking has resulted in cheap natural gas, and that cheap natural gas has really stunted the growth of the storage industry, and really set it back a couple of years.”

when natural gas is cheaper, storage systems just aren’t as valuable, and their operators can’t make as much profit. For instance, having a large battery on the grid to unleash power when demand peaks in the afternoon and evening makes less sense if it’s relatively cheap to just fire up a natural gas plant at that time instead.

This doesn’t mean, to be sure, that the storage industry is finished — far from it. It’s actually having a very good year, though it remains quite small. So storage isn’t doomed, but natural gas prices seem to have delivered a significant setback. “The thesis would be that if natural gas prices had stayed at the level they were in 2007, there would be a lot more energy storage now. So the energy storage industry just kind of took a punch in the gut to some degree, and they’re doing fine recovering out of this, but they’d probably be doing better if that hadn’t happened.”
Why cheap natural gas is thwarting the battery and energy storage revolution
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 26 Dec 2016, 02:21:06

Also, all states are already ramping up their renewable generation.

Renewable energy in the U.S. through the first half of 2016, including hydro-electric power, biomass, geothermal, wind, and solar (including distributed solar), provided 16.9 percent of electricity generation. In all of 2015, that number was 13.7 percent. Non-hydro renewable energy was 9.2 percent of U.S. electric generation through the first half of 2016. For all of 2015 it was 7.6 percent.

Since June, numerous large-scale wind and solar plants have already been completed. More are under construction. So renewable energy generation will rise even higher by year’s end. Next year looks to be even better. With thousands of megawatts of solar and wind under construction, 2017 could see non-hydro renewable energy rise to well over 10 percent of U.S. electric generation.

For renewable energy, growth is occurring in virtually all 50 states, as new wind and solar installations are placed into service. Every region is enjoying this growth. Requests for interconnection to utilities throughout the country are now primarily for wind and solar projects.

In Iowa, wind power is rivaling coal as the top source of electric generation. By 2017, Iowa may become the first U.S. state in history to generate a majority of its power from wind.

Wind energy generation doubled between 2010 and 2015. Solar energy generation increased by more than 20 times between those years. By the end of 2017 solar energy will likely double 2015 generation.
Renewable Energy Was 16.9 Percent of US Electric Generation in the First Half of 2016
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Re: A Critical Discussion the Limits to Renewable Energy Pt

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 26 Dec 2016, 03:05:29

Cheap gas has slowed down renewables, closed existing nuclear plants, and slowed down grid energy storage projects. But it has also done the most to reduce carbon emissions from coal. But it won't last, it is a temporary reduction.

It would be wise to bank some cash and implement both an alternative HVAC scheme and as many improvements to insulation and glazing as you can afford. It is appalling the number of residences in the USA that won't be habitable without gas. I refuse to let my home be one of those, and all of you should give it some thought.
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