[retiredguy]

Depressing, ain't it?

I'm used to filling the role as the local nutjob/crank.

I've come to conclusion that most people are clueless and wish to remain that way. So be it.

However, there is one group of people whose attitude continues to bother me. It's those people who are very concerned about the environment and are trying to live their lives accordingly. Unfortunately, most of these people, at least the ones I know, are totally clueless about the macro environment in which they operate.

They believe that if they drive Priuses, put PV on their roofs, all will be well in the end. They simply assume that the world will eventually understand and follow their lead to eternal bliss on earth.

Resource depletion, overshoot, the inherent problems with capitalism are inconvenient truths to them. Literally. When I asked one of my friends to read "Overshoot" he told me that he avoids negativism.

[BigTex]

When I asked one of my friends to read "Overshoot" he told me that he avoids negativism.

People are far more judgmental than they realize.

"Negative" is a judgment. The underlying reality just is what it is. Just being aware of that reality without judging it is plenty for me.

[retiredguy]

Tex,

I agree.

But avoidance of unpleasantness, especially if affects one personally, seems to be a pretty consistent human trait.

Certainly explains the hostility of people to the peak oil theory. Even though even a child can understand the concept of finiteness.

I remember asking my father where gasoline came from as a child. He said "the ground." When I expressed concerns that there may be just so much of it, he told me not too worry, there was still plenty to be had.

[Nano]

I remember asking my father where gasoline came from as a child. He said "the ground." When I expressed concerns that there may be just so much of it, he told me not too worry, there was still plenty to be had.

I had the same experience as a kid. My father is (was) a reservoir engineer working for Sh@ll.

I also remember trying to convince him there was a problem with oil supply back in 2004 trough 2005. He used to laugh and joke with me about my concern in afriendly way, but I'll never forget the day the conversation turned to Saudi oil eplxoration and I mentioned that they were actively engaging in EOR. At hearing that he was suddenly not so joking anymore. Shocked and stunned he was. For some reason, that single factbite - "EOR taking place in Saudi Arabia" - triggered him to take my peak oil 'ramblings' completely seriously from then on. It was a paradigm shift for him, his personal peak oil awakening, so to speak.

Just thought I'd recollect this little anecdote...

[Nano]

It has caused a lot of people to hate me. They drive to work in a half ton truck designed for a ranch and call me crazy.

C'est la vie.

Yeah, life's tough if you can't manage to shoehorn yourself into the prevailing illusion of the day. And it's dangerous too!

When hungry and afraid, humans tend to turn on the 'black sheep' and 'weirdo's' around them, kicking into a frenzy. You're going to have to keep an eye on that. The common people might seem docile and content for now, but it could become lynchings and death camps in no time when the edifice of civilisation starts to crumble and collapse. Never be fooled by the surface calm. Beneath the smooth outer skin it's undiluted homicidal mania.

[ROCKMAN]

A good story nano...thanks. Beleive it or not there are more than a few in the oil patch today that really are not up on the details and current status of PO. They all inherently know the ultimate limitations but don't have a good handle of where we are at the moment. Much too busy focusing on the small scale to watch the big picture.

[retiredguy]

Hey Nano,

I know what you are saying. The life expectancy of a prophet is pretty short. Best to stay beneath the radar.

[Nano]

People don't see the immediate utility of understanding depletion economics, let only geopolitics. And perhaps they're right. Like the bible says: He who increaseth knowledge, increaseth sorrow. What kind of a person has a taste to explore something like Jay Hanson's thesis!? Isn't that some kind of perversion?

[ROCKMAN]

nano,

I forget exactly how the old saying goes but it's something like: "Knowledge not applied is of little more value then ignorance".

I suppose the key is how you define apply. Perhaps just preparing yourself mentally for future events would qualify. There are actions that can often be taken. But just as often nothing can be done to stop certain events from developing. Thus it goes back to the basic personal question: if something bad is going to happen to you would you want to know in advance even if there were nothing you could do to prevent it. No right or wrong answers to that question IMO....just one's preference.

[Ben]

I love the bit about people being hardwired against knowledge of human nature in order to increase their effectiveness as liars in order to gain advantage.

What a beautiful piece of doomer thinking.

I'm back posting after several years ...

I agree with Cash. My favorite part of his work.

It's why middle-school kids can barely read, do math or think critically, but they instinctively form cliques, spread rumors, and play politics. Because they are born that way. Politics is their evolutionary weapon like an animal's claws.

I read this on dieoff.com in 2002, struggled with it for years, and finally realized it was 100% correct.

[zleo99]

Does anyone know where Jay Hanson is now, what he is doing, etc?

I, for one, REALLY appreciate the time he put into coming to the conclusion he gives in his Farewell. i similarly appreciate Shortonoil for the work he did and is doing on ETP.

[Revi]

He did some minor revisions as recently as 2015. I think he used to live on one of the Hawaiian Islands.

Here's the site:

http://www.dieoff.com

[zleo99]

Thanks.

[DesuMaiden]

He vmade some really insightful comments on human nature, how energy shaped our evolution and how things will likely unfold in the future. His writings don't contain that much optimism, however. He basically says: "everything is going downhill from now until we become extinct in the future". Abandon all hope for anyone who reads his website. There is no hope. Only the realization that mankind is just another species in the grand scheme of evolution and life on Earth, even though we have one of the most profound impact on the biosphere of the Earth as a species. We are altering the biochemistry of the atmosphere and oceans as profoundly as the cyanobacteria did expect we are doing it in a fraction of the time it took for them.