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German Energiewende

German Energiewende

Unread postby Quoles » Mon 23 Dec 2013, 10:41:47

Since when, I wonder, it is that freaking Germany from where they decide and dictate it to other European people how we are to make our living in our own countries? Particularly, I'm from France and hate now those Germans with their attempts by all means to make my country to refuse from nuclear power use. What's wrong with them? Do they burn with envy or what? The fact that those butterfingered German engineers have failed to set up safety net of nuclear power plants in their country does not mean that the nuclear power should be prohibited on whole all over the Union, does it?! As well as it does not mean at all that now every EU member should head for bioenergetics usage just cause in Germany they do. At least, my mom definitely did not give me my life to die in throe of some unknown ulcer in my own house because my neighbors have been using certain biomaterials to save on their energy expenses. Meanwhile, they say in Germany indeed some absolutely unknown disease have already been noted and spreading. Remember my words, no good all those experiments with nature will bring to this planet: a sunny day will come and they won't even notice it how they will derive some another death bringing 'plague', matching which neither the tragedy in Soviet Chernobyl, nor Fuksima will ever actually mean something.
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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby Paulo1 » Mon 23 Dec 2013, 11:21:48

The ongoing Fukishima disaster is and will be a gamechanger. And what's going on? They awarded the Olympics to Japan for God's sake. Not only can they not afford this bs party, (look how well that helped Greece), who would want to go there while this is all unfolding. My New Years toast will be for onshore winds in Japan 2014.

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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby Quinny » Mon 23 Dec 2013, 19:04:39

WTF does this mean? German diktat where?
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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby Simon_R » Tue 24 Dec 2013, 09:11:08

I am also from france, couldnt be happier at the Germans slowing down our nuclear program.

I guess it takes all sorts

Loving the use of Diktat btw
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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby JV153 » Wed 25 Dec 2013, 14:55:20

Well, there's this company called Giesecke and Devrient. Got to make sure to make a note of this. It took me a long time to figure out why a cop in Toronto came flying out of his car when I was riding my bike in Toronto, told me he could give me all kinds of tickets.
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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby Quinny » Wed 25 Dec 2013, 18:30:35

Is it just me that's confused?
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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby Subjectivist » Wed 25 Dec 2013, 19:34:40

Without a link to a specific report I can't make heads or tails of this thread.
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Re: German energy diktat over Europe.

Unread postby Ulenspiegel » Sat 28 Dec 2013, 06:18:20

Subjectivist wrote:Without a link to a specific report I can't make heads or tails of this thread.


Pre X-mas consumption of liquid X-mas presents. :-)
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Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 05:55:03

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-14/g ... et/7840578

Germany's dirty little coal secret

Image
Germany's reputation as a pioneer of clean, green energy seems a far cry from the reality on the ground in the village of Atterwasch.

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2016/0 ... s-in-2015/

Germany’s carbon dioxide emissions increased by an estimated 10 million tonnes from 2014 to 2015, in a blow to the country’s claims to climate leadership.

Higher demand for heating oil and diesel, plus use of lignite (brown coal) for power generation, were behind the 1.1% bounce, according to Green Budget Germany.

The think tank warned this set Europe’s largest economy off course for its 2020 target of a 40% cut from 1990 levels. Berlin needs to find 18% cuts in the next five years....
****************

So there is NO better climate morality in Germany under Merkel
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby forbin » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 07:24:38

They shut down their nuclear reactors and claimed at that time they were ahead of the target .

It seems they have been resting on their laurels since ......

I have always regarded Germany's stance on Nuclear power as a bit hypocritical as they import nuclear 'leccy from France . However they are pushing ( or have pushed ) ahead with clean generation.

can the USA do the same ?

methinks they could do better

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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby M_B_S » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 08:08:16

forbin wrote:They shut down their nuclear reactors and claimed at that time they were ahead of the target .

It seems they have been resting on their laurels since ......

I have always regarded Germany's stance on Nuclear power as a bit hypocritical as they import nuclear 'leccy from France . However they are pushing ( or have pushed ) ahead with clean generation.

can the USA do the same ?

methinks they could do better

Forbin

*************************



Germany have to go 100% carbon free before 2030 to give a positive example for the world that a high tech power could do the must do job.

But Merkels Coalition failed..

Now the world climate is doomed so YOU and I

The world is heading toward six degrees global warming this means Climate Armageddon

Maybe this is the real reason for Merkels "There will be no ASYL Limit" ( meaning climate refugees storming to the North)
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby regardingpo » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 08:40:05

It's even worse how they're burning wood and pretending that it's good for the environment. Whenever you read "Germany generates xx% energy from renewables" there are two things to know:

1. it's not energy, it's electricity (this is their favorite "mistake")
2. a lot of it comes from biomass which is worse than burning coal

Wood accounts for a majority of renewable energy generation in Poland and Finland, and nearly 40 percent in Germany...

After years in which European governments have boasted about their high-tech, low-carbon energy revolution, the main beneficiary seems to be the favored fuel of pre-industrial societies...

“Burning very few wood fuels shows any carbon benefit over coal,” says Scot Quaranda a spokesperson for the Dogwood Alliance, an anti-deforestation group in Asheville, N.C. “In most cases it’s actually worse than coal or natural gas.”

http://grist.org/climate-energy/europe- ... wait-what/
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby dissident » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 21:44:08

regardingpo wrote:It's even worse how they're burning wood and pretending that it's good for the environment. Whenever you read "Germany generates xx% energy from renewables" there are two things to know:

1. it's not energy, it's electricity (this is their favorite "mistake")
2. a lot of it comes from biomass which is worse than burning coal

Wood accounts for a majority of renewable energy generation in Poland and Finland, and nearly 40 percent in Germany...

After years in which European governments have boasted about their high-tech, low-carbon energy revolution, the main beneficiary seems to be the favored fuel of pre-industrial societies...

“Burning very few wood fuels shows any carbon benefit over coal,” says Scot Quaranda a spokesperson for the Dogwood Alliance, an anti-deforestation group in Asheville, N.C. “In most cases it’s actually worse than coal or natural gas.”

http://grist.org/climate-energy/europe- ... wait-what/


The closing of the nuclear plants was pure pandering to anti-nuclear hysterics in the wake of Fukushima. The non-nuclear energy sector kills 7 million people per year but the hysterics crap their pants about Fukushima which didn't kill a single human and any associated cancers will be part of the noise considering the spewing of chemical carcinogens into the environment (e.g. dioctyl phthalate) and pollution from coal plants.

The claim that burning wood is no better than burning coal is obvious nonsense. Coal is fossilized carbon that makes a net addition to the CO2 in the atmosphere. Burning wood recycles CO2 that was in the atmosphere in modern times back into it and results in no net CO2 contribution as long as the burned trees are replanted. However, a country the size of Germany cannot sustain itself on wood burning since the amount of wood it can produce is nowhere near its energy needs.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 14 Sep 2016, 22:26:02

M_B_S wrote:
Germany's dirty little coal secret


Germany’s carbon dioxide emissions increased by an estimated 10 million tonnes from 2014 to 2015, in a blow to the country’s claims to climate leadership.

Higher demand for heating oil and diesel, plus use of lignite (brown coal) for power generation, were behind the 1.1% bounce, according to Green Budget Germany.

The think tank warned this set Europe’s largest economy off course for its 2020 target of a 40% cut from 1990 levels.
****************

So there is NO better climate morality in Germany under Merkel


Thats OK.

The Paris Accord is purely voluntarily.

There are no penalties if Germany doesn't cut its CO2 emissions as it promised.

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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby regardingpo » Thu 15 Sep 2016, 03:03:06

dissident wrote:The claim that burning wood is no better than burning coal is obvious nonsense. Coal is fossilized carbon that makes a net addition to the CO2 in the atmosphere. Burning wood recycles CO2 that was in the atmosphere in modern times back into it and results in no net CO2 contribution as long as the burned trees are replanted.


What you wrote is obviously wrong, which you can easily see if you spend more than 2 seconds thinking about it.
1. The moment you burn a tree you add CO2 to the atmosphere.
2. Let's say you plant another tree in the place of the old tree. You still a have that extra C02 that you put in the air by burning the first tree. That's the difference compared to the situation where you don't burn that tree in the first place.
3. The only way to make the process carbon-neutral is if the new tree is better than the old tree at sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere so that it can make up for the difference over the course of its lifetime. In other words, it's just kicking the can down the road and it doesn't work in practice, which you can see for yourself if you actually read about it.


The fundamental idea behind bioenergy is that it’s carbon-neutral because it releases the carbon that plants absorb when they grow, and thus does not add carbon to the air. Why is this wrong?

It’s a common misunderstanding. Burning biomass of course emits carbon, just like burning fossil fuels. The assumption is that the plant growth to produce that biomass offsets the emissions. But the first requirement for a valid offset, whether for carbon or anything else, is that it is additional. You can’t count plant growth as an offset if it was occurring anyway. Plant growth can only offset energy emissions if it is additional. Counting plants that would grow anyway is a form of double-counting.

http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/ ... Green.html


The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change confirmed the inference in a 2006 document that evaluated CO2 releases compared to energy produced for 53 different fuels. It determined that wood and wood wastes had a greenhouse emission factor roughly 20 per cent higher than coal.”

http://invw.org/2014/04/23/biomass-fuel ... r-cl-1432/


Biomass electricity generation, a heavily subsidized form of “green” energy that relies primarily on the burning of wood, is more polluting and worse for the climate than coal, according to a new analysis of 88 pollution permits for biomass power plants in 25 states.

"The American Lung Association has opposed granting renewable energy subsidies for biomass combustion precisely because it is so polluting,” said Jeff Seyler, president and CEO of the American Lung Association of the Northeast. “Why we are using taxpayer dollars to subsidize power plants that are more polluting than coal?”

http://www.ecowatch.com/biomass-electri ... 84788.html


Cutting and burning forests makes climate change worse. Doing it in the name of “green energy,” as the wood pellet industry does, is one of the environmental crimes of the century.

The biomass industry wants EPA to declare that burning biomass has zero emissions – but the agency isn’t going to do that, because it’s a matter of simple physics that burning wood in power plants generates a lot more carbon pollution than burning gas or coal. Arguments that this carbon pollution shouldn’t “count” rely on the idea that all that carbon pollution will be offset somehow, with new forest growth at some future time, and that’s a problem for the biomass industry – because generally wood-burning power plants don’t have much interest in replanting trees, much less in waiting for them to grow to maturity. All the while, the atmosphere is counting that carbon pollution.

http://www.pfpi.net/usdas-promotion-of- ... mate-goals


Thank you, President Obama, for recognizing biomass isn't "carbon neutral"

Dear Mr. President:
On behalf of our organization that promotes science-based energy policy, we applaud the administration’s public opposition to the “biomass loophole” that would enable utilities to burn wood for electricity while ignoring its carbon pollution...

Treating bioenergy as carbon neutral undermines the goal of reducing carbon pollution under the Clean Power Plan. This is not a guess — the European Union (EU) already tried this approach. The EU classified bioenergy as carbon neutral while putting a price on carbon pollution. The result was a massive increase in burning wood for electricity because this practice avoids the carbon price...

http://www.pfpi.net/thank-you-president ... on-neutral

Just thought I'd mentiont Obama for Planty XD.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 15 Sep 2016, 08:25:55

forbin - The installed capacity of wind power in Germany was 29,075 MW with wind power producing about 7.7 percent of Germany's total electrical power.

The U.S. nameplate generating capacity for wind power at 75,000 MW which is more than twice that of Germany. This capacity is exceeded only by China. Thus far, US wind power's largest growth in capacity was in 2012, when 11,895 MW of wind power was installed. IOW in just one year this US added 1/3 of the total wind power of Germany. And at 10% Texas supplies a higher portion of its electricity then Germany.

But I do agree with you: the US could and should do much more.
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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby forbin » Thu 15 Sep 2016, 09:41:40

thanks for the update Rockman

wouldnt be a grand day when

http://energytransition.de/2016/05/germ ... on-sunday/

the USA achieves that?

technically possible - do you guys have the will though ?

( ok I know Denmark and NZ claim 100% and this is leccy and not transport fuels )

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Re: Germanys dirty secret under Chancelor Merkel

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Thu 15 Sep 2016, 11:21:12

forbin - Yes a particularly critical goal given the very disproportionate energy consumption by the US. While small countries might be doing better from a % perspective it matters little from the global point of view.
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