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Is "retro" technology a better investment?

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Is "retro" technology a better investment?

Unread postby GHung » Fri 10 Jun 2016, 15:20:25

PhebaAndThePilgrim wrote:Good day all:
I don't chime in much any more. Pilgrim and I stay very busy.
But on this subject I have some knowledge I would like to share.
Hoping this may come in useful for those seeking an older machine.
I am a sewing machine junkie. I have 7 machines.
At one time I had 17, but Pilgrim was threatening to sleep in machine shed because there was no room. So common sense had to prevail.
I love taking them apart, repairing, etc.
Is a retro machine better than a new one.
Well, the answer is like asking a farmer a question.
The answer will always be, "It all depends".
Depends on what you mean by "retro"
Depends on what you are going to use it for.
Depends on the brand.

There are four basic types of sewing machines.
Computer
Electronic
Mechanical
Manual.
Manual is a treadle or hand crank. If you can find a certain model, especially a Singer, is a great investment.
Singer model 15-88 is best, but should be a round bobbin, not what is known as flying shuttle or long bobbin. Bobbins and parts difficult to find and flying shuttle bobbins hold little thread.

Next are mechanical. Machines powered by electricity, but all knobs and controls are mechanical. These are the machines I adore and collect.
Berninas have the most punching power, mostly because of their DC motor, but have two nylon gears in most machines.
Parts for older Berninas are hard to find, but it can be done. They are worth the investment.
There is a reason for the nylon gears. They are quiet and they will break if something goes wrong rather than a more integral, expensive part of machine.
Singer has some nice mechanical machines, the models 201 and 15 being the best. Straight stitch only, but they are amazing. Gear driven, no belts, no plastic parts. Came in 4 types, potted motor, aftermarket motor, treadle, and handcrank. You can not go wrong with a well cared for 201 or 15.
Singer also has a series of machines called "Slant Needle". The needle is slanted forward. Models 301, 401, 503. Great machines, but take note.
slanting the needle forward means less piercing power. Plus, the machine needs slanted attachments. These are gear driven machines, no belt.
note, the main gear for driving these machines is not metal. It is WWII product called Textolite. Hard as iron. I never heard of one breaking.

Electronic machines are machines with an electronic board, not computerized. Most of these are from the 90s. Some awesome machines. But if the board fries, machine is a boat anchor.

Next are computer machines. Oh my, they are fun. the high end ones can cost as much as a car. But, an older Bernina or a Singer 201 or 15 have more piercing power.
Cheap machines, Wal-Mart, Jo-anns are what are called clamshell construction. Two pieces of plastic slapped together. They were made for the landfill.
Older Kenmore machines with a prefix model number of 158 are great machines. All metal, belt driven, but usually a cogged belt. The 158 means they were made in Japan by Maruzen/Jaguar.

Necchi, Pfaff, Viking, not my cup of tea. Tried them. Italian made Necchis have a huge following, but are so finely machined they tend to seize up easily. When well oiled and cared for old Necchis are smooooth.
parts are difficult to find.
my advice, avoid computer machines unless you stumble on one like I did the one at Salvation Army.
Opt for a manual if you can find a really good 15 or 201 with a round bobbin.
look for a mechanical Bernina, or a Singer 201 or 15.
The last model Bernina that is a mechanical was the mode 1031. After that they were electronic.
My Singer 15-91 (the 91 means potted motor) will sew just about anything with a straight stitch that is flawlessly beautiful.
Finally, I have an industrial Juki. I just love it for working with denim. It's a beast, but a machine I should have purchased 17 machines ago.
Downside, it takes a ton of space, if it ever needs repair I have to haul in a 70# sewing machine, or fix it myself. Upside, feet are only a couple of bucks each. It sews like a demon.
A lot of machines, a lot of choices. If anybody has any questions on a machine feel free to ask.
Here is a link to a site I always share. I get tired of seeing people being ripped off on "industrial strength" machines on E-Bay.

http://vssmb.blogspot.com/2012/04/diffe ... .html#more
Pheba.


Thanks for chiming in, Pheba, and for the link. Your conclusions are what I've come up with in my limited research looking for a basic mechanical domestic machine that hopefully will last. I looked at some of the later mechanical Berninas but the ones that look worth having are still a bit above my budget, and my late mother's Singer 221 Featherweight seemed a little,,, little (besides being in nearly like-new condition). I was looking mainly for a fairly heavy-duty free-arm machine in great condition for the homestead. My daughter who sews for a living has pronounced our 'new' Bernina 530 "sweeeet!" Sews perfectly. She recently bought a nice Singer 201 ('40s model, potted motor, a lot of attachments) with its original table at a thrift store for $40. It has a gray/green "crackle" finish; not so pretty to look at but in great shape. It's now her workhorse machine for basic sewing. The olive drab finish makes me wonder if these were produced for the military.

Like you, I can see myself getting addicted to collecting and restoring these great machines. Cheaper than collecting vintage cars, and takes up less space. Maybe you should remind Pilgrim of that 8O

BTW: What do you think of the vintage Elna Supermatics? I've seen some nice looking ones on Ebay for under $100.
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Re: Is "retro" technology a better investment?

Unread postby EdwinSm » Mon 13 Jun 2016, 00:55:32

In the village I live in a number of the old men have reconditioned tractors from the 1950s and 1960s. Often at the local garage/repair shop there is an old tractor partially dismantled, so there are still the skills to keep them running.

The tractors are used for the occasional field (usually potatoes for the family), some forestry work (including powering machines for chopping and splitting logs for firewood), and snow clearing (of the drive to the family home) - so more of 'hobby' farming rather than commercial farming.

On the same topic: Is this the world's favourite second-hand tractor? http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36479610
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Re: Is "retro" technology a better investment?

Unread postby Zarquon » Thu 16 Jun 2016, 13:25:52

The family of a school buddy of mine ran a small farm machinery shop. Behind the workshop there was a field with perhaps two or three dozen tractors, most of them had been sitting there in the open for 30 or 40 years. Once in a while they still sold spare parts from these ancient wrecks. Apparently they were built to last.

But from what I've heard about designing modern appliances like washing machines, engineers often argue about replacing a flimsy aluminum fitting with an even flimsier plastic one, in order to save half a cent in costs per machine. Sounds absurd unless you build half a million of them. Then it adds up.
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Re: Is "retro" technology a better investment?

Unread postby PhebaAndThePilgrim » Mon 20 Jun 2016, 17:02:48

Hi: Sorry G response took so long. I don't log on here much.
I owned a grasshopper Elna one time. Never cared much for it, but they do have a following.
I had to learn the hard way that three things predict functionality of a machine, metal parts, the motor. And last and most important, how the machine is engineered to deliver amps from the motor to the needle.
So, the Elna did not impress. The Featherweight, while sought after for quilters to take to quilt class, is a machine that does not impress for my needs. i.e. sewing Pilgrim's work clothes and farm stuff, and handbags I make. Machine has a low amp motor.
The 201 has a motor with a lower amp than my Bernina, but works nearly as well because of the machine gear, and the fact that it is straight stitch only. The motor doesn't have to put any work into more gears to reach the conclusion at the needle.
I have learned hard way to keep it as simple as I can . My Juki only does a straight stitch, and it weighs 70#. 70# just for a straight stitch!
But it is worth it as it does a flawless job.
If anybody is seeking an industsrial, I have had good luck with old Singers and Juki. But Juki recently switched to made in China. Made in Japan seems to be machined better.
The old White machines often have 1.3 to 1.6 amp motors. By contrast my Bernina is 1.1. I once purchased an old white back when amps impressed me. Unfortunately the presser foot will not raise very high at all. You can't fit anything thick under the foot. I couldn't even hem jeans or put a zipper in a jacket. What's the point of 1.6 amps if you can't fit anything thick under the presser foot? Something else I learned the hard way.
Yes, these old machines are awesome. I once had an old old Bernina.
Sewed beautifully, but I sold it to a tailor in New York.
I could not get past the fact that the bobbin went into the machine from the back. That just weirded me out.
Pheba.
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