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Trans Pacific Partnership

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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 13:42:03

A "comprehensive" text of the agreement in principle will be released "in the coming days," officials said Monday.
This will give them time to put their preferred spin on it. In a few days the public will be tired of hearing about TPP and will not pay attention to the boring details.
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Re: Donald Trump winning primary, GOP "in turmoil"

Unread postby AgentR11 » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 14:11:25

Keith_McClary wrote:
PrestonSturges wrote:In some parts of the US, there is a kosher Coke Classic with sugar for Passover in bottles with a yellow cap.
I will have to re-read Leviticus. I don't recall anything about corn syrup being unclean.


There are a lot of food prep rules, and it has to be certified kosher, which adds to the cost. So even if all coke products would pass certification, its not really cost effective to spend money to certify the whole mess, just to meet a small niche market that's generally going to prefer from-scratch dining anyway.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby AgentR11 » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 14:13:41

Keith_McClary wrote:
A "comprehensive" text of the agreement in principle will be released "in the coming days," officials said Monday.
This will give them time to put their preferred spin on it. In a few days the public will be tired of hearing about TPP and will not pay attention to the boring details.


Thats always the problem, our sound bite media is now taken for normal; and any explanation or description of an agreement that takes longer than 30 seconds max, causes the viewer to reach for the clicker.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 14:39:01

The TPP is another triumph for Obama, and will be one of the standout accomplishments forming his legacy.

Obama has opened US markets to many more third world countries, and in return he has received sincere promises from their leaders that they will undertake various reforms of their labour and environmental laws.

Its a big WIN WIN!

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Clinton gave us NAFTA---Obama is giving us TPP. Thanks Ds!

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Note added later: I see Sanders is strongly denouncing Obama and the TPP. I assume Hillary will have to endorse the TPP, since much of it was negotiated on her watch while she was Sec of State.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 05 Oct 2015, 18:22:19

Now Donald Trump is denouncing the TPP as "Obamatrade."

Curious to see Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders on the same side in the fight against Obama and Hillary's TPP treaty. 8)
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby vox_mundi » Fri 09 Oct 2015, 14:13:20

Wikileaks release of TPP deal text confirms 'freedom of expression' fears

Wikileaks has released what it claims is the full intellectual property chapter of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the controversial agreement between 12 countries that was signed off on Monday.

One chapter appears to give the signatory countries (referred to as “parties”) greater power to stop embarrassing information going public. The treaty would give signatories the ability to curtail legal proceedings if the theft of information is “detrimental to a party’s economic interests, international relations, or national defense or national security” – in other words, presumably, if a trial would cause the information to spread.

Bet VW could'a used that.

TPP "is a collection of provisions that amount to a wish list for giant multinational corporations,"

Image

... "The finalized chapter would require all countries eventually to conform to every pharmaceutical patent rule in the TPP, regardless of any individual country’s wealth (or lack thereof) or level of development," Public Citizen, a government transparency group, wrote in an expert analysis of the leaked documents. “The new monopoly rights for big pharmaceutical firms would compromise access to medicines in TPP countries. The TPP would cost lives.”

"If adopted, the rules will delay generic and biosimilar competition, making the medicines upon which people depend to stay alive expensive for longer and, as a consequence, unobtainable."

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https://www.rt.com/usa/318146-tpp-wikil ... -property/

... “Companies are scouring the globe for countries they can get to produce most cheaply.” That, he said, results in constant downward pressure on American wages. “Companies are not invested here the way we’d like them to; they’re doing stock buybacks and higher dividends,” Wessel continued. “They may yield support for the stock-holding class but it’s not creating jobs.”
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 09 Oct 2015, 14:54:37

vox_mundi wrote:Wikileaks release of TPP deal text confirms 'freedom of expression' fears

One chapter appears to give the signatory countries (referred to as “parties”) greater power to stop embarrassing information going public. The treaty would give signatories the ability to curtail legal proceedings if the theft of information is “detrimental to a party’s economic interests, international relations, or national defense or national security” – in other words, presumably, if a trial would cause the information to spread.

Bet VW could'a used that.


The TPP is a country-to-country treaty.

The TPP will empower foreign leaders or US politicians like Obama to be able to censor news that he thinks is deleterious to US "national defense or national security". The TPP will allow Obama and other political leaders to blocks various news stories and administratively detain people (i.e. without a trial) who print the wrong things in their news papers or web sites.

Bernie Sanders is right ----- the TPP is a very dangerous treaty.

Cheers!
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby vox_mundi » Sat 10 Oct 2015, 18:07:12

Berlin anti-TTIP trade deal protest attracts hundreds of thousands

Hundreds of thousands of people marched in Berlin on Saturday to oppose a planned free trade deal between the European Union and the United States that is claimed to be anti-democratic and to threaten food safety and environmental standards.

The environmental groups, charities and opposition parties that organised the protest claimed 250,000 people took part, while a police spokesman said 100,000 attended. Smaller protests were also held in other cities, including Amsterdam, with a rally due to be held in London on Saturday night at which shadow chancellor John McDonnell is scheduled to speak.

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In the U.S. ... crickets.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 14:06:39

vox_mundi wrote:Berlin anti-TTIP trade deal protest attracts hundreds of thousands

Hundreds of thousands of people marched in Berlin on Saturday to oppose a planned free trade deal between the European Union and the United States that is claimed to be anti-democratic and to threaten food safety and environmental standards.

The environmental groups, charities and opposition parties that organised the protest claimed 250,000 people took part, while a police spokesman said 100,000 attended. Smaller protests were also held in other cities, including Amsterdam, with a rally due to be held in London on Saturday night at which shadow chancellor John McDonnell is scheduled to speak.

In the U.S. ... crickets.


The difference being that the USA media is all from what I can tell Pro where as the UK media is much more mixed, as you would expect in a society that values a free press. When you only get one side of any story it is hard to know what you need to know.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sun 11 Oct 2015, 15:12:16

T - It just occurred to me the similarities of the debate over the TTIP and the one we had here years ago over states' rights vs the feds. From big issues like segregation to little issues like speed limits on the highways. Some very sharp distinctions and some blurry lines.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Tue 27 Oct 2015, 17:55:18

Joseph Stiglitz: Under TPP, Polluters Could Sue U.S. for Setting Carbon Emissions Limits
Nobel Prize-winning economist and Columbia University professor Joseph Stiglitz warns about the dangers of the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership. "We know we’re going to need regulations to restrict the emissions of carbon," Stiglitz said. "But under these provisions, corporations can sue the government, including the American government, by the way, so it’s all the governments in the TPP can be sued for the loss of profits as a result of the regulations that restrict their ability to emit carbon emissions that lead to global warming."
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 27 Oct 2015, 21:02:28

So given that we Texicans sorta think of ourselves as a sovereing nation we might be able to sue the US govt so we can keep burning the hell out of all our crappy lignite?

Where do we sign up for the TPP? LOL.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 03:23:54

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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 07:08:27

Plantagenet wrote:The TPP is another triumph for Obama, and will be one of the standout accomplishments forming his legacy.

Obama has opened US markets to many more third world countries, and in return he has received sincere promises from their leaders that they will undertake various reforms of their labour and environmental laws.

Its a big WIN WIN!


Not how it was looked at in Australia
The final text of a huge 12-country trade agreement has confirmed the "worst nightmares" of environmental groups, with no mention of climate change in its lone environment chapter and weak enforcement mechanisms, Australian academics say.

it looks like US trade officials have been "green-washing" the agreement.

"The agreement has poor coverage of environmental issues, and weak enforcement mechanisms.
There is only limited coverage of biodiversity, conservation, marine capture fisheries, and trade in environmental services.
The final text of the chapter does not even mention 'climate change' – the most pressing global environmental issue in the world."

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... krivo.html
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... krivo.html

The other major concern is corporations being able to sue the government for changing laws that may adversely effect their business
one of Australia's leading intellectual property experts, Associate Professor Kimberlee Weatherall, from Sydney University's Law School, has criticised a clause in the agreement that gives foreign companies the right to sue Australian governments for introducing laws they say have harmed their interests.

Australia 'could be sued for billions' by foreign companies under TPP
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... ksbjx.html
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 06 Nov 2015, 07:57:58

Yes the level of chicanery and deceit is amazing. Of course US and other rich countries are interested in a quasi-legal structure to continue to pillage even more third world countries. The elites in these countries are only to happy to oblige the rich countries, as they themselves are further enriched and these pacts serve their interests. The assurances of third world country entrenched elite ring hollow but just in case some might have some interest in safeguarding their environment the sue clause can remedy that. Of course the interests of the masses of people are once again burnt at the altar of rabid capitalism and the so called "free market". Also burnt at the altar is the Earth.
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 28 Dec 2015, 14:22:57

TPP is a giftwrapped wealth-transfer to China
Writing in the Globe and Mail, University of Toronto Munk Chair of Innovation Studies Dan Breznitz explains how the TPP -- negotiated in secret without any oversight or accountability -- will enrich a few multinationals at the expense of US and Canadian growth, making the whole trade zone less competitive and more ripe to be overtaken by Chinese firms.

In sealing the broken patent and copyright system, the insane trade secrecy regime, and Investor-State Dispute Resolution systems beneath a lacquer of unbudgeable trade obligations, the US government has hung weights around the necks of new entrepreneurs and businesses.

Interestingly, this critique comes from a "Hayekian," right-wing proponent of free market capitalism, who says that by going far beyond trade, this "trade agreement" will cripple the economies of all who sign it.

Let’s start by acknowledging that the TPP is a laudable attempt at free trade in services that are now blocked by high non-tariff barriers. If this was the only aspect of the deal, we should all rush to ratify it. But most of its two million words concern how markets need to be regulated. Deciding how to regulate markets is also deciding winners and losers. And no matter what the intentions of the writers of this complex legal document may have been, it is written in a way that runs counter to its declared goals.

The TPP harms all the requisites of efficient competitive markets, innovation and entrepreneurship. Above all, it puts limits on information, in terms of both access and usage.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... cmpid=rss1
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Re: Trans Pacific Partnership

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 04 Feb 2016, 12:10:45

From Congressional Research Service ...

The Trans-Pacific Partnership: Strategic Implications
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