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RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

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RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby vox_mundi » Tue 12 Jan 2016, 21:07:17

RBS cries 'Sell Everything' as Deflationary Crisis Nears

Clients told to seek safety of Bonds and Treasuries. 'This is about return of capital, not return on capital. In a crowded hall, exit doors are small

Western stocks will fall by 20 percent. Oil will trade at $16 a barrel. Emerging markets will crumble as China assumes the role of Lehman Brothers in the not so eagerly awaited sequel to the 2008 financial crisis.

That preview of the next 12 months is brought to you by the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Sell everything except for high-quality bonds,” RBS credit chief Andrew Roberts writes in a note to investors that reads like the voice-over in a trailer of a finance-themed horror film. “This is about return of capital, not return on capital. In a crowded hall, exit doors are small.”

Roberts said that all of the red flags the bank has been monitoring — collapsing oil prices, volatility in China, rising debt, deflation, and weak corporate loans — have made their presence felt in the very first week of trading. The FTSE is already down 5 percent, its worst start since 2000, while the Dow Jones industrial average has never opened a year this poorly.

And the Scottish bank isn’t the only big bear in today’s market. J.P. Morgan has advised its clients to sell stocks at the next bounce, while Standard Chartered predicts that oil may soon fall to as low as $10 a barrel.

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RBS first issued its grim warnings for the global economy in November but events have moved even faster than feared. It estimates that the US economy slowed to a growth rate of 0.5pc in the fourth quarter, and accuses the US Federal Reserve of “playing with fire” by raising rates into the teeth of the storm. “There has already been severe monetary tightening in the US from the rising dollar,” it said.

RBS said the epicentre of global stress is China, where debt-driven expansion has reached saturation. The country now faces a surge in capital flight and needs a “dramatically lower” currency. In their view, this next leg of the rolling global drama is likely to play out fast and furiously.

We are deeply sceptical of the consensus that the authorities can ‘buy time’ by their heavy intervention in cutting reserve ratio requirements (RRR), rate cuts and easing in fiscal policy,” it said.


Is RBS right to forecast doom and gloom for the global economy?

... “Sure, the economic indicators point to things being not so good. For instance, a sharp slowdown in China is not good for the UK, the US or Europe, because it puts a drag on growth. In that sense the impact is significant. However, it is not a disaster.

But if the current concerns turn into systemic meltdown on financial markets, then all bets are off.

The worry is that this will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as investors rush to the exit doors and businesses and households stop spending and, if a financial market rout feeds through to a new recession, policymakers are seriously lacking in tools to fight the new downturn.”

Monty Python - "Run Away! Run Away!
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 12 Jan 2016, 21:43:31

As I said about this story on another thread, it sounds a bit like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Nice Monty Python allusion!
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 12 Jan 2016, 22:10:50

Just a flesh wound. :)
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 12 Jan 2016, 22:46:21

Ick.. this next one could be a GREAT depression.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 00:30:50

Seems to be good advice we seem to be nearing some sort of Event Horizon for entering bad economic territory.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 01:17:46

onlooker wrote:Seems to be good advice we seem to be nearing some sort of Event Horizon for entering bad economic territory.


The global economy never really recovered from '08 and the great recession. Which was deflationary.

So now there's some analysts thinking we've got another '08 on our hands. I would think if it happens again, it could be worse. The biggest issue right now is problems in China and the economic slowdown there, and crash in their stock market, and they aren't as advanced of an economy and they don't handle market troubles so well. (communist party, they just tell people they can't sell their stock, which creates more panic)

China could potentially drag the world into economic depression. Much of the world is already in recession. I think Europe is, if I recall. And Canada is. And all the oil nations have problems, with these low prices.

We *barley* have GDP growth (and that's financial based). China's slowed down so much, it's still growth, but by their standards it really counts as recession.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 03:00:32

The scary thing is they thought it was a good idea to say it
Fair enough to think it.
But the trick is to talk of sunshine and unicorns until "you" sell everything then talk doom and buy it all back
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Cog » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 06:39:25

This is the time to buy, not sell.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 07:49:56

Are you selling?
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 10:38:53

Shaved Monkey wrote:The scary thing is they thought it was a good idea to say it
Fair enough to think it.
But the trick is to talk of sunshine and unicorns until "you" sell everything then talk doom and buy it all back


Yes. Cause, once you sell "everything" you are then sitting on a bunch of cash and so you are looking for something to buy anyway. RBS says stay in bonds. I say diversify because there are some games going on that people like us can't influence but we can go along for the ride.

I noticed a bunch of 5 year CDs issued by GS and others at 2.5-3% interest (FDIC insured). Seems like a pretty good interest rate for these days but why?
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Cog » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 11:36:55

Shaved Monkey wrote:Are you selling?
nope
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby sidzepp » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 18:51:32

This is the sixth time that I can remember since the crash of 1987, that the stock market has gone into a bear market. Each time the pessimists emerged from their caves and cried this the next great depression. In a year or so stocks will rebound and those that wear the rose tinted glasses will emerge touting the greatness of capitalism. In the meantime, whichever jerk we have as President will say how he fixed the economy. As long as the powers that be in the economic world have enough consumers to vend their electronics and toys to, we will have a cyclical economy. When the environment finally reacts to our continual abuses and the consumers are more concerned about food and safety, then you will see a depression that will make the great depression look like a time of economic prosperity.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 19:35:56

A liquidity drought is coming. Those exit doors are going to be really small....
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Cog » Wed 13 Jan 2016, 20:07:14

A bear market is a great buying opportunity.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby EdwinSm » Thu 14 Jan 2016, 10:57:40

I sold (early January - before this thread), but I need the money in the next six months, which in my opinion is too short a time for a rebound.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 14 Jan 2016, 16:34:23

EdwinSm wrote:I sold (early January - before this thread), but I need the money in the next six months, which in my opinion is too short a time for a rebound.

Making short term bets (roughly, under a few years) in the stock markets is speculation, not prudent investing. If you need the money within six months, the stock market is the wrong place for it, whatever your opinion on stocks may be.

(If the investment gurus, newsletter writers, technicians, yadda, yadda, could call the market accurately enough to meaningfully "beat" it -- they'd be living large instead of hawking their wonderful "advice" and sitting under the hot lights at places like the CNBC studios, to pay their rent).

Oh, and if active mutual fund managers could beat the market, then broad index funds that just sit there zen-like (i.e. being the market) wouldn't beat such managers (and their higher expense ratios) over 80% of the time. (Citation - Vanguard's Jack Bogle, and various white papers and books he's written. Same concept, different words (citing "helpers"), Warren Buffett).

Same with the supposed gurus running hedge funds. They mostly get outsized gains by taking big risks for several years (instead of anything like a true market neutral hedging strategy). Then at some point, they "blow up" the fund, close it, and distribute the remaining dregs (big losses) to the investors. And oh yes, they KEEP all the big fees. And then in a few months or years, they start up another hedge fund. Great business if the sheep need a shave.

My cynicism stems from watching and learning from the markets for 35+ years now, and watching the same stuff go on, but with different names. (For example, high fee long/short leveraged ETF's anyone?) :roll:
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: RBS cries 'Sell Everything'

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 15 Jan 2016, 13:18:12

Looks like people are taking this advice.

Code: Select all
Index            Value        Change
FTSE 100       5,804.1    -1.93%
Dow Jones   15,945.62  -2.65%
Nasdaq         4,467.37   -3.2%
Nikkei 225   17,147.11  -0.54%
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