Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Fascist / Fascism Thread pt 3

For discussions of events and conditions not necessarily related to Peak Oil.

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 07 Jun 2015, 12:38:40

http://www.whdh.com/story/29243765/stor ... ynn-school

Nothing like a little over reaction to calm the masses?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 04 Oct 2015, 08:22:48

Thanks for that link, T. Great stuff there!

As for the others, the morality seen here seems to be "I don't have to stop doing evil,because if I do, someone else might do even more evil."

It's a wonderful way to avoid all responsibility for one's own sh!t, but it doesn't add up to a particularly convincing moral argument.

"Humans have mastered distributing surpluses desperately needed food to away from impoverished areas"

Fixed that for ya. Remember the Irish Potato Famine, in the midst of which beef was being exported out of Ireland to well fed rich folks in England? That kind of crap is happening and will continue to happen all the time. Ask ad how capitalism ensures that this is the case (is he still on these boards?).
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 04 Oct 2015, 08:46:22

dohboi wrote: Remember the Irish Potato Famine, in the midst of which beef was being exported out of Ireland to well fed rich folks in England? That kind of crap is happening and will continue to happen all the time. Ask ad how capitalism ensures that this is the case (is he still on these boards?).


There was a little beef and mutton exported, but the major killer was exporting all of the food crops including the grains to feed horses in the British Army instead of to feed starving Joe6P in Ireland. My ancestors on that side had already emigrated before the famine, but a lot of my ancestors relatives were stuck on very little food and many people actually died of starvation because of Government Policy. There are good reasons why some of us do not see the Government as an enlightened protector of all.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Sun 04 Oct 2015, 08:56:04

Tanada wrote: There are good reasons why some of us do not see the Government as an enlightened protector of all.

The truest thing I have seen on this board in a long time. :evil:
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 04 Oct 2015, 14:01:23

T, thanks for the clarifications on food exports. But when you say:

"There are good reasons why some of us do not see the Government as an enlightened protector of all"

Well, yeah--really bad governments can do really bad things. True of any collection of people.

Best not to put people in power who have no compassion, like repugs (and many demorats), then, right?
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 04 Oct 2015, 21:16:53

dohboi wrote:T, thanks for the clarifications on food exports. But when you say:

"There are good reasons why some of us do not see the Government as an enlightened protector of all"

Well, yeah--really bad governments can do really bad things. True of any collection of people.

Best not to put people in power who have no compassion, like repugs (and many demorats), then, right?


Yes, however the government of the UK that caused the mass starvation in Ireland was generally thought of by the developed world as a generally GOOD Government. If a Generally GOOD government can fall so far as to allow children to die of a famine they could have easily supported them through the things an EVIL government does do not bare thinking about. The GOOD UK allowed the Irish to starve, the EVIL Nazi/Stalinist Governments deliberately enslaved and starved to death entire populations that did not agree with them. I am sure more of the Irish would have died if they had been confined to work camps, but that is the only effective difference in the two policies. I believe in the Golden Rule, you know do to your neighbor as you would want your neighbor to do to yourself?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 04 Oct 2015, 23:38:50

Generally thought to be generally good?? What does that have to do with anything. The fact is that it wasn't good and was run by racists. Jonathan Swift certainly didn't think it 'generally good.'

King Leopold of Belgium was 'generally thought to be generally good' for most of his life, but that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest murderers in human history, outdoing even Hitler by butchering some ten million Africans.

But perhaps we should take a discussion of historical atrocities and of the proper roles of government to a more appropriate thread? Any suggestions?
User avatar
dohboi
Harmless Drudge
Harmless Drudge
 
Posts: 19990
Joined: Mon 05 Dec 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Meat Eaters = #1 Cause of Extinction

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 06 Oct 2015, 14:53:39

dohboi wrote:Generally thought to be generally good?? What does that have to do with anything. The fact is that it wasn't good and was run by racists. Jonathan Swift certainly didn't think it 'generally good.'

King Leopold of Belgium was 'generally thought to be generally good' for most of his life, but that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest murderers in human history, outdoing even Hitler by butchering some ten million Africans.

But perhaps we should take a discussion of historical atrocities and of the proper roles of government to a more appropriate thread? Any suggestions?


Two problems, who decides what government is good and what government is evil? How hard is it to influence government to change from being one to being the other?
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby vox_mundi » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 15:52:30

The Resistible Rise of Global Fascism

What is Fascism? Recently Chris Hedges wrote of an imperialist US that is infected by “the virus of fascism, wrapped in the American flag, held aloft by the Christian cross and buttressed by white supremacy.” Hedges was not using the term fascism as it would be used by a political theorist or historian. It is common to use “fascism” to indicate a more general and imprecise fascistic tendency. Yet there comes a point when so many fascistic traits are in evidence that you know you must be dealing with a type of Fascism.

The US has become a Fascist state. The similarities between the US regime and past Fascist regimes are too numerous to ignore. There are notable differences, it is true, but they can all be traced to a single point of departure: the original Fascism was a nationalistic creed with imperialist ambitions, this new Fascism is an imperialist ethos and mode of governance. The old Fascism presented itself as monolithic and sought to hide or destroy inter-elite disputes. The new Fascism presents itself as pluralistic while insisting that its monolithic orthodoxies only exist because they are natural, rather than being ideological, and not subject to reasonable dispute. In other words, this new Fascism is an ideology that claims to be non-ideological and, like the old Fascism, it is a politics that claims to be anti-political.

... Fascism is both a political and cultural phenomenon gripping both the elite and the masses. Symptoms include the degradation of democratic institutions; a “justice” system that crushes the weak but will not or cannot touch the strong; a culture of mean-spirited chauvinism and the abandonment of ideals of empathy; increasing state violence and state surveillance; a “corporatist” relationship between government and capital; militarism and interventionism; an emphasis on factional affiliation in politics; an acceptance or celebration of political victory through the exercise of power rather than the contest of ideas; and, last but not least, a proud anti-intellectualism.

But this is not confined to the US. The entire Western world seems to be infected with the virus, and even that is only part of the extent of it. We are witnessing a new wave of Fascism. Imperialist and neoliberal authoritarianism is now expressing itself in mass culture and throwing up salient outcrops of both overt Fascist and cryptofascist groupings. But these are small fry, a mere symptom of a new composite Fascism that has come to dominate our political landscape.

Exhibit “A”

To sample just one country, in the UK popular columnist Katie Hopkins wrote, “these migrants are like cockroaches” and “a plague of feral humans.” She also wrote: “Show me bodies floating in water, play violins and show me skinny people looking sad. I still don’t care.” And she wrote that she would send “gunships” instead of “rescue boats” to deal with asylum seekers. Members of the UK public, or perhaps more predominantly the English public, echo her cruelty. Tourists visiting the Greek island of Kos complain that people in need make their holidays “awkward”. Others tweeted that asylum seekers would be good “target practice” for the Army and that “[t]heir sense of entitlement beggars belief”. There has been a backlash, for sure, but to put that in context there has been significant jump in anti-refugee sentiment with 47% of 6000 polled Britons saying that the UK should not allow any refugees from the Middle East and 41% rejecting asylum seekers altogether.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late.
User avatar
vox_mundi
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Wed 27 Sep 2006, 03:00:00

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 20:40:40

KaiserJeep wrote:Cid, the only two problems I see are 1) The ever-increasing number of Federal, State, and Local government handouts is creating a new and expanding underclass of non-working drones. 2) The government agencies need to be shrinking their budgets, not growing them.

I am moving from one expensive area (Silicon Valley) to another (Wisconsin) where I will have to live on my pension, my 401K, and Social Security. Based on the real rate of inflation, I'll go from comfortable to poor in about a decade - but I'll probably live two decades.


And when you do run out of money, we can only hope that there is someone to mock you as a moral failure for running out of money, like you seem to have been doing for much of your life.

KaiserJeep wrote:We saw the results of the welfare culture at work in New Orleans after Katrina. The black neighborhoods did not evacuate, the nearest they came was forming gangs to loot the wealthier suburbs. They hunkered down in their hovels and died in great numbers as they waited for the government to come and care for them. Then after being evacuated to the SuperDome, they preyed on one another.

When the Peak Oil crisis comes, be it slow or be it fast, these people don't have a chance, the underclass will all die.


You know, most of those Katrina stories now only exist on white supremacist web sites because so many of them were debunked. But it takes a special kind of mind to see black people dying an tv and somehow concluding that white people were the real victims, and to hang onto that as if it was one of the most important events in your life. Somehow I've managed to get through life without being permanently traumatized by seeing a black person on tv.
User avatar
PrestonSturges
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6052
Joined: Wed 15 Oct 2008, 03:00:00

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 20:56:39

To me Fascism is embodied in these two simple ethos "Might makes right" and " I am better then you"
"We are mortal beings doomed to die
User avatar
onlooker
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 10957
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013, 13:49:04
Location: NY, USA

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 07 Dec 2015, 22:21:47

PrestonSturges wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Cid, the only two problems I see are 1) The ever-increasing number of Federal, State, and Local government handouts is creating a new and expanding underclass of non-working drones. 2) The government agencies need to be shrinking their budgets, not growing them.

I am moving from one expensive area (Silicon Valley) to another (Wisconsin) where I will have to live on my pension, my 401K, and Social Security. Based on the real rate of inflation, I'll go from comfortable to poor in about a decade - but I'll probably live two decades.


And when you do run out of money, we can only hope that there is someone to mock you as a moral failure for running out of money, like you seem to have been doing for much of your life.

KaiserJeep wrote:We saw the results of the welfare culture at work in New Orleans after Katrina. The black neighborhoods did not evacuate, the nearest they came was forming gangs to loot the wealthier suburbs. They hunkered down in their hovels and died in great numbers as they waited for the government to come and care for them. Then after being evacuated to the SuperDome, they preyed on one another.

When the Peak Oil crisis comes, be it slow or be it fast, these people don't have a chance, the underclass will all die.


You know, most of those Katrina stories now only exist on white supremacist web sites because so many of them were debunked. But it takes a special kind of mind to see black people dying an tv and somehow concluding that white people were the real victims, and to hang onto that as if it was one of the most important events in your life. Somehow I've managed to get through life without being permanently traumatized by seeing a black person on tv.


I have NEVER in my life been to a white supremacist web site, and I'm sorry you are so familiar with them. Do you wear a white sheet and go to meetings, too?

My knowledge of Katrina came from my daughter who was an experienced Red Cross employee at the time. She volunteered to go to NO and her job was logistics, she had a fleet of several dozen large trucks and was delivering bottled water, food, and other emergency supplies to the Superdome and the Red Cross emergency shelters in the area. She saw and related what I told you and even worse stories - and I believe every word.

I also lived in NO for five years as a kid and briefly in my early 20's while I was in the USCG. It was and is one of the most corrupt cities in the USA. A shopping cart wrangler at WalMart earns more money than a rookie cop in NO, who does not get paid a living wage, and this ensures that from day one he is on the take, because he has to be to eat. This corruption has persisted for generations, and it results in Black-on-Black crime, and it was the reason that Black cops could not get Black residents to leave buildings flooded on the first floor, who subsequently died - some while shooting at USCG and National Guard and Fire Department rescue boats. In case you don't remember, the National Guard responded to these snipers with helicopter gunships - tactics more often used in hostile enemy territory, which perfectly describes a mostly empty NO, with gangs of Blacks pillaging toney suburbs.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6094
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 17:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby Shaved Monkey » Tue 08 Dec 2015, 01:27:38

When the masses blame the poor its fascism when the masses blame the rich its socialism.
Pretty sure the rich want the masses to keep blaming the poor.
Ready to turn Zombies into WWOOFers
User avatar
Shaved Monkey
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2486
Joined: Wed 30 Mar 2011, 01:43:28

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 08 Dec 2015, 03:11:23

KaiserJeep wrote:
PrestonSturges wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Cid, the only two problems I see are 1) The ever-increasing number of Federal, State, and Local government handouts is creating a new and expanding underclass of non-working drones. 2) The government agencies need to be shrinking their budgets, not growing them.

I am moving from one expensive area (Silicon Valley) to another (Wisconsin) where I will have to live on my pension, my 401K, and Social Security. Based on the real rate of inflation, I'll go from comfortable to poor in about a decade - but I'll probably live two decades.


And when you do run out of money, we can only hope that there is someone to mock you as a moral failure for running out of money, like you seem to have been doing for much of your life.

KaiserJeep wrote:We saw the results of the welfare culture at work in New Orleans after Katrina. The black neighborhoods did not evacuate, the nearest they came was forming gangs to loot the wealthier suburbs. They hunkered down in their hovels and died in great numbers as they waited for the government to come and care for them. Then after being evacuated to the SuperDome, they preyed on one another.

When the Peak Oil crisis comes, be it slow or be it fast, these people don't have a chance, the underclass will all die.


You know, most of those Katrina stories now only exist on white supremacist web sites because so many of them were debunked. But it takes a special kind of mind to see black people dying an tv and somehow concluding that white people were the real victims, and to hang onto that as if it was one of the most important events in your life. Somehow I've managed to get through life without being permanently traumatized by seeing a black person on tv.


I have NEVER in my life been to a white supremacist web site, and I'm sorry you are so familiar with them. Do you wear a white sheet and go to meetings, too?

I've actually gone looking for the source of these stories more than once, and they are only on blogs and white supremacist sites. Yes, these stories were on the news at the time, but they have all been scrubbed from the internet. The only stories that have held up are the cops that went on a killing spree and are now in prison. But I shouldn't need to tell you this because I think we have kicked this can down the road several times before.
KaiserJeep wrote:My knowledge of Katrina came from my daughter who was an experienced Red Cross employee at the time. She volunteered to go to NO and her job was logistics, she had a fleet of several dozen large trucks and was delivering bottled water, food, and other emergency supplies to the Superdome and the Red Cross emergency shelters in the area. She saw and related what I told you and even worse stories - and I believe every word.

Godd for her, she was in a the perfect position to hear every bullshit rumor. Was she also hearing about the cops that were on a killing spree? And the only confirmed cases of "snipers" seem to have been the whites that were shooting at unarmed black residents trekking to the nearby designated evacuation points, which the white residents later described in interviews. Again, we have kicked that can down the road several time before.
User avatar
PrestonSturges
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6052
Joined: Wed 15 Oct 2008, 03:00:00

Re: You Might Be A Fascist If…

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Tue 08 Dec 2015, 05:59:58

I listen to what people I trust are saying, and believe them.

I don't believe that there is an infallible filter in my head that will allow me to source everything I know from the Internet, and then filter out the "truth" from all the BS written by people with agendas of their own. Tell me, how is it that YOU can do this?
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 6094
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 17:16:32
Location: Wisconsin's Dreamland

Neo Fascism Rising

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 06 May 2016, 21:02:09

Hi all, I just thought to start a thread about populist neo fascists taking leadership roles around the world.

On Monday, the 8th of May, it appears the Philippines will elect à blatant psychopath by the name of Duterte to the Presidency. This guy makes Trump & Putin look like mild mannered scholars. He has sworn to carry out mass murder to empty prisons, order police to kill criminals instead of prosecuting, makes jokes about how gang rape murderers should remember to let the Mayor go first. 'Bongbong Marcos' son of the dictator Ferdinand is Duterte's running mate for VP.

Is populist extremism the gateway drug to neo fascism? Is that where the 'democratic world' is heading? It appears so to me, & another indication of lifeboat ethics.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9284
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: Neo Fascism Rising

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 06 May 2016, 22:02:53

Is it really neofascism? The Marcos family have been fascistic from at least WW II to present, they just served their cold war 'allies' well enough to have their sins overlooked. The same was true of a whole slew of other fascistic leaders world wide, include fellows like Saddam Husein of Iraq.

The sad fact of the matter, or happy fact if you are on the other side, is the whole concept of global governance, NWO, globalist free trade, whatever you want to call it doe not fit the human psyche. We are a fundamentally tribal species and the bigger the imposed tribe from above the more wobbly the structure is and the harder it is to get everyone to comply with the 'leadership' decisions.

Some regions have done better with the bigger territories like China in Asia or Ancient Rome in Europe or the Inca in South America and Aztec in North America, but none of them were actually very big in terms of actual governance. In every case local bureaucrats or governors ran sections of the larger body, working together for the benefit of all.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
User avatar
Tanada
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 17050
Joined: Thu 28 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: South West shore Lake Erie, OH, USA

Re: Neo Fascism Rising

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 06 May 2016, 22:19:13

Of 1700 murders Duterte brags of, over 100 were children under 16. Marcos still controls untold billions stolen from the country by his father. The country has always been run by about 150 families, Duterte is from one of these & his children were all dollar millionaires by their 21st birthday. Yet the populace are going to vote in more lying rich murdering scum from the same dynasties hoping this time it will get fixed.

About the time I joined here I was living in the Philippines, long enough to recognise the place is ripe for a hard core communist revolution & only thing stopping it is offshore remittances. Duterte is effectively this revolution. He has been supporting the New People's Army, Maoist insurgency for decades. He has promised to include NPA in his cabinet. If this guy does half of what he says he is going to do, Philippines is going to civil war very soon.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9284
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: Neo Fascism Rising

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 07 May 2016, 00:35:36

I just saw an article about right wing populism, in Estonia:

Contentious politics in the Baltics: the ‘new’ wave of right-wing populism in Estonia

Image

Controversies over the refugee crisis have provided the populist and more extremist right-wing parties across the ‘new’ Europe with a new impetus. This piece focuses on the case of the, relatively new and increasingly popular, party of EKRE (Estonian Conservative National Party).
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/vassilis-petsinis/contentious-politics-in-baltics-new-wave-of-right-wing-populism
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Neo Fascism Rising

Unread postby Kylon » Sat 07 May 2016, 02:05:16

I simply think this is a result of the system being gamed and becoming unresponsive to the people.

Oligarchs, politicians, lawyers, bankers, political elites have politically engineered the systems of governance to their benefit, in many cases organizing things in such a way that they can extract wealth and value from the productive classes.

As times get harder and harder people will turn to someone who is responsive to their needs.

The political, establishment, and banking elites of most societies have different values than the people they are suppose to govern. They generally have more in common with elites from other societies than they do their own people.

So as the elites of societies work to undermine the influence of the people to prevent them from ruining their means of extraction and the political system that works for the elites, the people will turn to anyone who seems powerful enough to take on, and if needed depose the elites that are undermining the people's interest.

If that person is a violent fanatic, so long as that person seems like they are willing and able to take on the power of the elites in their society, the people will rally behind them. The people aren't looking for someone nice, they are looking for someone to take on vested and entrenched interest that are undermining their own interest.

So it's highly likely that brutal dictators will arise all over the world, due to the desperation of the masses.
User avatar
Kylon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri 12 Aug 2005, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Geopolitics & Global Economics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests