[StarvingLion]

People keep forgetting that natural gas is also a fossil fuel.

President Obama himself pointed out that the US gas a 100-year-supply of NG, and FF will not be "finished" until NG is finished.

Cheers!

Go fuel up your car at the imaginary CNG station.

Therefore NG is already finished because it will be much cheaper to just use the Coal Car (EV). Thats why you need 2100 new coal plants to fry the planet. Or the factory nuke that will make your bones so brittle and your blood full of cancer.

[Subjectivist]

People keep forgetting that natural gas is also a fossil fuel.

President Obama himself pointed out that the US gas a 100-year-supply of NG, and FF will not be "finished" until NG is finished.

Cheers!

Go fuel up your car at the imaginary CNG station.

Therefore NG is already finished because it will be much cheaper to just use the Coal Car (EV). Thats why you need 2100 new coal plants to fry the planet. Or the factory nuke that will make your bones so brittle and your blood full of cancer.

Considering nearly every large electric producer in America has been building Natural Gas burning power plants for about 20 years now that EV is at least as likely to be natgas powered as coal powered.

[Lore]

Fossil fuels are not finished, or should they be. What needs to be adjusted is the way we use them. Sparingly and for the most necessary reasons. Even snake poison has its positive uses.

Had we balanced their use a long time ago with natural CO2 sequestration we could have had many thousands of years of reserves without the threat to the environment.

[StarvingLion]

People keep forgetting that natural gas is also a fossil fuel.

President Obama himself pointed out that the US gas a 100-year-supply of NG, and FF will not be "finished" until NG is finished.

Cheers!

Go fuel up your car at the imaginary CNG station.

Therefore NG is already finished because it will be much cheaper to just use the Coal Car (EV). Thats why you need 2100 new coal plants to fry the planet. Or the factory nuke that will make your bones so brittle and your blood full of cancer.

Considering nearly every large electric producer in America has been building Natural Gas burning power plants for about 20 years now that EV is at least as likely to be natgas powered as coal powered.

No it won't because natural gas requires infrastructure growth in vehicles using the gas in order to keep demand up. That growth is too slow because it will require vehicles to make an expensive conversion to gas.

EV's can only work with the fast growth of coal otherwise the price of electricity goes up too much.

[Plantagenet]

Go fuel up your car at the imaginary CNG station.

Why pretend CNG stations are imaginary? Can we please deal with reality here instead of prevaricating about things?

DOE site finds your nearest NG gas stations

NG is already finished because it will be much cheaper to just use the Coal Car (EV).

1. EVs are actually a lot more expensive then NG cars.

2. AND coal releases a great deal more CO2 then NG. Your plan to rely on coal-fired EVs will fry the planet.

Cheers!

[Subjectivist]

Go fuel up your car at the imaginary CNG station.

Therefore NG is already finished because it will be much cheaper to just use the Coal Car (EV). Thats why you need 2100 new coal plants to fry the planet. Or the factory nuke that will make your bones so brittle and your blood full of cancer.

Considering nearly every large electric producer in America has been building Natural Gas burning power plants for about 20 years now that EV is at least as likely to be natgas powered as coal powered.

No it won't because natural gas requires infrastructure growth in vehicles using the gas in order to keep demand up. That growth is too slow because it will require vehicles to make an expensive conversion to gas.

EV's can only work with the fast growth of coal otherwise the price of electricity goes up too much.

I am telling you that power plants making electricity are choosing to burn natural gas. That has nothing to do with CNG cars. EV cars are using electricity generated by burning natural gas. Or coal. Or Hoover Dam hydroelectricity. It all depends on where you live. Where I live every electric plant built for at least the last decade has been fueled with natural gas.

[StarvingLion]

Fossil fuels are not finished, or should they be. What needs to be adjusted is the way we use them. Sparingly and for the most necessary reasons. Even snake poison has its positive uses.

Had we balanced their use a long time ago with natural CO2 sequestration we could have had many thousands of years of reserves without the threat to the environment.

Follow your advice now and the system instantly collapses.

Don't you get it? The masters of the universe took the training wheels off the fractional reserve banking system a long time ago and replaced it with deregulation.

That means this "legitimate" financial world system is no different than a pile of Albanian Pyramid Schemes, all of whom collapsed in Albania in the late 90's through sheer maniacal exhaustion (eg. 50% return/month).

The only way to win now is through ever more intensive industrial activity whether it makes sense or not because the system is guaranteed to collapse. Its just when and who is left standing.

There is no such thing as progress: coal and ev's are old technology that are being overengineered. The PHD scientists are all being fired so they can work as janitors.

[Lore]

Fossil fuels are not finished, or should they be. What needs to be adjusted is the way we use them. Sparingly and for the most necessary reasons. Even snake poison has its positive uses.

Had we balanced their use a long time ago with natural CO2 sequestration we could have had many thousands of years of reserves without the threat to the environment.

Follow your advice now and the system instantly collapses.

Don't you get it? The masters of the universe took the training wheels off the fractional reserve banking system a long time ago and replaced it with deregulation.

That means this "legitimate" financial world system is no different than a pile of Albanian Pyramid Schemes, all of whom collapsed in Albania in the late 90's through sheer maniacal exhaustion (eg. 50% return/month).

The only way to win now is through ever more intensive industrial activity whether it makes sense or not because the system is guaranteed to collapse. Its just when and who is left standing.

There is no such thing as progress: coal and ev's are old technology that are being overengineered. The PHD scientists are all being fired so they can work as janitors.

With that scenario no one, or anything will be left standing in a few hundred years. The system will vomit a death sentence long before it runs out of steam.

[Outcast_Searcher]

People keep forgetting that natural gas is also a fossil fuel.

President Obama himself pointed out that the US gas a 100-year-supply of NG, and FF will not be "finished" until NG is finished.
Cheers!

Yup. Even if burning it only cooks the planet at roughly half the pace of burning oil and coal, it cooks it nevertheless.

Nothing I've seen but unscientific green fantasy predictions which ignore things like scale, cost, and proven science show that there will be enough truly green electricity to power most of a global fleet of electric cars (replacing all the fossil fuel burning cars) within at least a few decades.

[Tanada]

People keep forgetting that natural gas is also a fossil fuel.

President Obama himself pointed out that the US gas a 100-year-supply of NG, and FF will not be "finished" until NG is finished.
Cheers!

Yup. Even if burning it only cooks the planet at roughly half the pace of burning oil and coal, it cooks it nevertheless.

Nothing I've seen but unscientific green fantasy predictions which ignore things like scale, cost, and proven science show that there will be enough truly green electricity to power most of a global fleet of electric cars (replacing all the fossil fuel burning cars) within at least a few decades.

Its worse than that, during its brief atmospheric lifetime Methane has 86 times as much greenhouse impact as the same volume of CO2 so every leaky pipe anywhere from source rock to end consumer has a significant impact. If any large government wanted to cook us all suicide greenhouse style all they have to do is release their natural gas reserves unburnt. Methane has a combustion limit of 4.4 percent so venting methane and diluting it with air down below that level first would prevent fire or explosion danger and ensure the methane does its bit for the greenhouse effect.

[Plantagenet]

during its brief atmospheric lifetime Methane has 86 times as much greenhouse impact as the same volume of CO2 so every leaky pipe anywhere from source rock to end consumer has a significant impact.....

Yup. Thats 100% exactly right.

The good news is that methane only survives for about 11 years in the atmosphere. The bad news is that the chemical reactions that consume and break down methane wind up producing more CO2, which can stay in the atmosphere for 1000 years.

[ralfy]

If the current global consumption rate is around 90 Mb/d, then 21 billion barrels will allow for only a few months' worth of oil.

[zoidberg]

Lol. Yes like empirical observation.

[ROCKMAN]

ralfy - True: the faster we consume the less we have. For instance: in the last 10 years global consumption of oil, NG and coal has increased. Kinda argues that the Carbon Age is alive and well, eh?

[Lore]

Or just that we are reaching apogee with fossil fuels.

Change seems to come, at least lately, rather rapidly on the backs of events and a generational shift in attitude.

[ennui2]

The only way to win now is through ever more intensive industrial activity whether it makes sense or not because the system is guaranteed to collapse.

Fiat currency or no, growth has been part of the paradigm of homo-sapiens at least as far back as the Neolithic revolution. Go back to the gold standard and we'll still be over-reproducing and over-developing and dreaming of the suburban house with the two-car garage like the Chinese currently are getting.

The PHD scientists are all being fired so they can work as janitors.

WTF? Did you just pull that out of your ass? Please stay within the realm of reality here.

[ROCKMAN]

Note the feds haven’t filed the new rules in the Federal Registry. Supposedly, according to inside sources, they are delaying as long as possible to keep the states from filing their lawsuits and the possibility of getting an immediate ruling against the EPA. Lawsuits that could kill the proposed EPA plans and damaging President Obama’s “legacy” before he leaves office:

Reuters - Fifteen state attorneys general petitioned a federal court in Washington on Thursday to block new U.S. rules to curb carbon emissions from power plants, in the first of several expected legal challenges to the Obama administration measure. States that oppose the Environmental Protection Agency's Clean Power Plan filed for the stay in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. The states asked for a ruling by Sept. 8, one year before they need to submit compliance plans to the EPA. "This rule is the most far-reaching energy regulation in the nation's history, and the EPA simply does not have the legal authority to carry it out," West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey said. The Obama administration unveiled the final version of the Clean Power Plan on Aug. 3. It aims to lower emissions from the country's power plants by 32 percent below 2005 levels by 2030.

President Barack Obama called the rule the biggest action the United States had taken to date to address climate change. Under the proposal, each state needs to submit a plan to the EPA detailing how it intends to meet the target the agency set for it. States, particularly those that have relied on coal for electricity, have argued the EPA has overstepped its regulatory authority. "The Clean Air Act was never intended to be used to create this type of regulatory regime, and it flies in the face of the powers granted to states under the U.S. Constitution," said Morrisey. The EPA said Thursday the Clean Power Plan will withstand legal challenges because it is based on a "sound legal and technical foundation." "To ensure that the Clean Power Plan's significant health benefits and progress against climate change are delivered to all Americans, EPA and the Department of Justice will vigorously defend it in court," EPA spokeswoman Liz Purchia said.

The EPA has not yet filed the rule in the Federal Register, at which point parties can begin to formally file lawsuits. It has said it will do so "in the normal course." The attorneys general said they are requesting to stay the rule now so states don't spend time drafting compliance plans for a rule that may be "thrown out in court" if the EPA loses in a future lawsuit. Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Wisconsin and Wyoming joined West Virginia in requesting the stay.

[ROCKMAN]

Apparently the UK govt agrees with the title of this thread:

New measures introduced by the UK government will fast-track shale gas planning applications in the country, the Department of Energy and Climate Change announced Thursday. The measures will identify local authorities that have repeatedly failed to determine oil and gas applications within a 16-week statutory timeframe, with subsequent applications potentially being decided by the government's Communities Secretary. In effect, this means that the UK's central government will be able to override local authorities if they drag their feet when it comes to granting permission to frack for shale gas. DECC said the plans will ensure local people still have a strong say over the development of shale exploration in their areas, but that they will also ensure communities and the industry benefit from a swift process for developing safe and suitable new cites.

Commenting on the new measures, UK Energy and Climate Change Secretary Amber Rudd said in a statement: "As a 'One Nation' government, we are backing the safe development of shale gas because it's good for jobs, giving hardworking people and their families more financial security; good for our energy security; and part of our plan to decarbonize the economy. We need more secure, home grown energy supplies – and shale gas must play a part in that. "To ensure we get this industry up and running we can't have a planning system that sees applications dragged out for months, or even years on end. Oversight by the Health and Safety Executive and the Environment Agency of shale developments makes our commitment to safety and the environment crystal clear. We now need, above all else, a system that delivers timely planning decisions and works effectively for local people and developers."

[C8]

Actions by the US and England are not going to make any appreciable dent in CO2 emissions- FF prices will lower and be snapped up by India, Africa and the Middle East that have exploding populations (but don't bring up the last point b/c liberals will accuse you of being racist).

Given the fact that Obama's actions won't affect CO2, I have to oppose them based on how he is increasingly using the executive branch as a dictatorial body that disregards the Constitutional structure that includes Legislative power and the Federalist balance of national vs. state govt. power. On immigration he has also disregarded the clearly spelled out role of Congress as being central to setting immigration policy.

Liberals may feel Obama's unilateral actions are necessary for a "good cause" but the CO2 reduction won't be achieved- and the increasing power of the executive branch over all of America will be decried by the same liberals if a Republican is elected. Obama's precedent will not be reversed and the destruction of checks and balances is far more harmful than mythical CO2 decreases. All dictatorships end badly and we are moving fast in that direction by this President.

[Subjectivist]

Actions by the US and England are not going to make any appreciable dent in CO2 emissions- FF prices will lower and be snapped up by India, Africa and the Middle East that have exploding populations (but don't bring up the last point b/c liberals will accuse you of being racist).

Given the fact that Obama's actions won't affect CO2, I have to oppose them based on how he is increasingly using the executive branch as a dictatorial body that disregards the Constitutional structure that includes Legislative power and the Federalist balance of national vs. state govt. power. On immigration he has also disregarded the clearly spelled out role of Congress as being central to setting immigration policy.

Liberals may feel Obama's unilateral actions are necessary for a "good cause" but the CO2 reduction won't be achieved- and the increasing power of the executive branch over all of America will be decried by the same liberals if a Republican is elected. Obama's precedent will not be reversed and the destruction of checks and balances is far more harmful than mythical CO2 decreases. All dictatorships end badly and we are moving fast in that direction by this President.

I disagree with your last point, not all dictatorships end badly. For example Augustas Gaius Ceaser founded an Empire with hereditary royalty that lasted for 450 years in Western Europe and close to 1600 years in Eastern Europe.